AsA vs RAAF ATC
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AsA vs RAAF ATC
Hi All,
Can anyone provide some thoughts on RAAF vs AsA in terms of training and careers? Can anyone proved feedback that have worked in both?
Also, a few years back there were rumours RAAF ATC would be merged with AsA (or vice versa). Is this still the case or a potential?
Any feedback much appreciated - thanks.
Can anyone provide some thoughts on RAAF vs AsA in terms of training and careers? Can anyone proved feedback that have worked in both?
Also, a few years back there were rumours RAAF ATC would be merged with AsA (or vice versa). Is this still the case or a potential?
Any feedback much appreciated - thanks.
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Thanks for responding, however can you elaborate?
I understand the Minister was signalling a possible merge (or takeover as you put it), but I can find little information after 2010.
How is this likely to affect Controllers?
Particularly RAAF Controllers?
I was under the impression they were looking to both migrate to the same system.
I understand the Minister was signalling a possible merge (or takeover as you put it), but I can find little information after 2010.
How is this likely to affect Controllers?
Particularly RAAF Controllers?
I was under the impression they were looking to both migrate to the same system.
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AsA vs RAAF
Hi,
The talk of merging comes and goes with a fair bit of regularity. It's not being talked about at the moment and realistically it's not in the plans. The two organisations will continue to do their separate things for the foreseeable future.
As to which one is preferable it comes down to what you want to do.
AsA pays better, but the career options are a bit more limited in regards to the sort of ratings you can achieve in a short space of time. You are unlikely however to get picked up and shifted every couple of years to a new locations.
The RAAF offers a more varied controlling type of arena, (TOWER, APP etc) but you're then in the military and subject to that area.
The training is similar, and we use the same rule book.
In the end it comes down to what sort of controlling you want to do, and what sort of money you're after.
Hope this helps a bit.
Koo.
The talk of merging comes and goes with a fair bit of regularity. It's not being talked about at the moment and realistically it's not in the plans. The two organisations will continue to do their separate things for the foreseeable future.
As to which one is preferable it comes down to what you want to do.
AsA pays better, but the career options are a bit more limited in regards to the sort of ratings you can achieve in a short space of time. You are unlikely however to get picked up and shifted every couple of years to a new locations.
The RAAF offers a more varied controlling type of arena, (TOWER, APP etc) but you're then in the military and subject to that area.
The training is similar, and we use the same rule book.
In the end it comes down to what sort of controlling you want to do, and what sort of money you're after.
Hope this helps a bit.
Koo.
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The RAAF offers a more varied controlling type of arena, (TOWER, APP etc)
In ASA you can do;
- procedural Tower/Approach at a regional tower,
- radar tower at a regional tower (eg. Gold Coast, Cairns) or a capital city tower(eg. BN, ML, SY, PH, AD)
- radar enroute (includes busy arrival sectors, enroute sectors, low level sectors)
- procedural enroute (like UAS(E)) where most of the communication is via 3rd party HF comms or via datalink (CPDLC)
- radar approach, eg. BN, SY, Cairns
- approach also includes FLOW control where you are responsible for sequencing into busy airfields (eg. BN, ML, SY, Cairns)
And you deal with all types of aviation types and activity from daily major domestic airlines, to regional carriers, international carriers, general aviation, and all military types and nearly every mil ex occurs in restricted airspace surrounded by civil airspace which means you manage the traffic to and from the milex and around the milex.
Tell me if the RAAF do that?
Training? RAAF v. ASA
RAAF train their controllers well to do their job, particularly with the nuances of military type operations.
ASA also train their controllers well. The AsA controllers are trained in certain areas (eg. enroute, tower, approach) separately to do that particular job.
Both AsA and the RAAF do a good job at what is their core business.
I've been in both, and I deal with the RAAF on a daily basis. So I know how good they are.
DP
Last edited by DirtyPierre; 28th Sep 2012 at 07:44.
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AsA v RAAF
Ok, poor choice of words.
What I meant was at least in the RAAF you can excercise two very different ratings at essentially the same time, i.e. do some approach then migrate to the tower.
With AsA you generally only do one type or sector, and depending on the staffing situation it can be very difficult to move to another area.
Having worked and trained both RAAF and AsA, I haven't noticed any real differences in quality it comes more down to the individual than the organisation they trained with.
What I meant was at least in the RAAF you can excercise two very different ratings at essentially the same time, i.e. do some approach then migrate to the tower.
With AsA you generally only do one type or sector, and depending on the staffing situation it can be very difficult to move to another area.
Having worked and trained both RAAF and AsA, I haven't noticed any real differences in quality it comes more down to the individual than the organisation they trained with.
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Ask any pilot who deals with Townsville or Darwin for their thoughts on RAAF controllers. Yikes.
The problem is, RAAF controllers are not trained in civil operations like AsA controllers. The RAAF App Supervisor does the flowing based on some sort of dark art (pen, paper, ouija board)that his mate taught him should work, whereas an AsA flow uses a special computer program at a dedicated console, that he/she manipulates the FLow System, to get the most efficient arrival sequence given the circumstances at the time. And the AsA flow just does FLOW control.
RAAF ATC equipment, ADATS, is an engineers wet dream (and looks like some sort of battle hardened thing out of a 90s aircraft carrier) which doesn't do that great a job at Air Traffic Management. The RAAF ATCs had little say in the choice of equipment. ADATS is a system that isn't as good as Fiji's, Indonesia's, or NZ's ATM system. Yes, Fiji and Indonesia have better ATM systems than the RAAF.
The Eurocat system used by AsA is way more ATM and controller friendly. The AsA controllers had imput in what system to purchase back in the 90s, and the regular system upgrades are driven by controllers who work as dedicated system specialists in Eurocat. AsA controllers told the engineers what they wanted.
So the RAAF controllers aren't really trained at civil ops that well, and the equipment they use is less modern than a couple of less modern countries that our airspace borders. So the RAAF do a pretty good job with the equipment and the training they are given.
Bring on the integration.
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I'll add my 2 cents if you let me.
I am currently a RAAFy but looking at switching over to AsA.
I have found my current employ to be quite fulfilling, I have controlled both in the tower and in approach, and held those ratings concurrently. Maintaining 2 separate endorsements is something that the RAAF provides (and expects) but something that AsA rarely does (from what I have seen). What that means is that you get a broad view of the profession and get a 'top down' understanding of it. Some people wish to specialise the path that they take, others are happy doing it all (I was).
I would like to think that the RAAF does a pretty good job, I believe it is impossible that the RAAF provides the same quality of service as AsA due to the RAAF posting cycle. It is not very often that a controller will spend very long (more than 4 years) in 1 position, however the RAAF have introduced a scheme that will allow for 'specialists' to stay in location for longer periods of time. A 10 year veteran of the RAAF will typically be on their 3rd or 4th base, where as a 10 year veteran of AsA will typically have held only 1 or 2 endorsements, however their level of profficiency in the job will be high (arguably higher than the RAAFy)
In terms of systems, there is really no comparison, TAAATS is more user friendly, more intuitive and safer. ADATS is a system designed to be transportable (taken to a warzone) and whilst the systems are of the same era, ADATS has not kept pace with TAAATS.
I would argue that RAFFies are trained as well to handle civilian traffic as AsA guys, we just focus more on our specialised roll of military control. What the military lack is a traffic management system, and it lacks it because the nature of control is more unpredictable. The control style used is more 'tactical' and less 'strategic' because it has to be given the nature of most of the bases flying.
There are Pros and Cons to both. There are opportunities available to you in the military that AsA just cant provide, and likewise the RAAF will never provide you with as much remuneration as AsA.
Ultimately I think it comes down to a lifestyle choice, I think if you are young (say under 30) then the RAAF may be a good option for you. If you dont want to move 3 times in the next 5 years, then AsA may be a better option for you.
I was happy with my choices and wouldnt have done it any other way
I am currently a RAAFy but looking at switching over to AsA.
I have found my current employ to be quite fulfilling, I have controlled both in the tower and in approach, and held those ratings concurrently. Maintaining 2 separate endorsements is something that the RAAF provides (and expects) but something that AsA rarely does (from what I have seen). What that means is that you get a broad view of the profession and get a 'top down' understanding of it. Some people wish to specialise the path that they take, others are happy doing it all (I was).
I would like to think that the RAAF does a pretty good job, I believe it is impossible that the RAAF provides the same quality of service as AsA due to the RAAF posting cycle. It is not very often that a controller will spend very long (more than 4 years) in 1 position, however the RAAF have introduced a scheme that will allow for 'specialists' to stay in location for longer periods of time. A 10 year veteran of the RAAF will typically be on their 3rd or 4th base, where as a 10 year veteran of AsA will typically have held only 1 or 2 endorsements, however their level of profficiency in the job will be high (arguably higher than the RAAFy)
In terms of systems, there is really no comparison, TAAATS is more user friendly, more intuitive and safer. ADATS is a system designed to be transportable (taken to a warzone) and whilst the systems are of the same era, ADATS has not kept pace with TAAATS.
I would argue that RAFFies are trained as well to handle civilian traffic as AsA guys, we just focus more on our specialised roll of military control. What the military lack is a traffic management system, and it lacks it because the nature of control is more unpredictable. The control style used is more 'tactical' and less 'strategic' because it has to be given the nature of most of the bases flying.
There are Pros and Cons to both. There are opportunities available to you in the military that AsA just cant provide, and likewise the RAAF will never provide you with as much remuneration as AsA.
Ultimately I think it comes down to a lifestyle choice, I think if you are young (say under 30) then the RAAF may be a good option for you. If you dont want to move 3 times in the next 5 years, then AsA may be a better option for you.
I was happy with my choices and wouldnt have done it any other way
