Olney 1c departure turn Luton RW08
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Olney 1c departure turn Luton RW08
Mmmm...Could someone re assure and educate this slightly bemuzed pilot. Just been in the sim; been out of Luton lots and lots of times for real. Never had any problems. However the instructors here in stars and stripes land are slightly paranoid of this departure in the sim with a turn being called for at 2.6dme. aircraft in FMS turns at 3dme. The furthest the aircraft reaches on the radius of turn at 200kts 25 degree bank is 5nm before it continues on its track.- all sounds normal to me.
My question is this , how far would I have to go to infringe onto the next bit of blue airspace (stansted?!) as they have been recommending me/us to go heading mode to pole the plane around. As I say never been an issue for me but as this has just come up could some expert tell me what you are seeing on your screen before you get flinchy?
sorry for the 'anality' of this but I would like to know.
many thanks
dd
My question is this , how far would I have to go to infringe onto the next bit of blue airspace (stansted?!) as they have been recommending me/us to go heading mode to pole the plane around. As I say never been an issue for me but as this has just come up could some expert tell me what you are seeing on your screen before you get flinchy?
sorry for the 'anality' of this but I would like to know.
many thanks
dd
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CAP778 should give you the info you're looking for.
Your "problem" may be linked to the autoplot itsself.We had a problem at Maastricht where some autopilots would overfly the waypoint (GRONY) before turning (to GREFI) and others would anticipate the change of heading (in this case 70°). In the Upper Airspace, at cruising speeds, it was a much bigger problem to us as there were danger areas on both sides of the track. In this case the difference amounted to several miles.
BTW It's a "Procedural separation" so the distance between it and a conflicting one should be Lots.
Your "problem" may be linked to the autoplot itsself.We had a problem at Maastricht where some autopilots would overfly the waypoint (GRONY) before turning (to GREFI) and others would anticipate the change of heading (in this case 70°). In the Upper Airspace, at cruising speeds, it was a much bigger problem to us as there were danger areas on both sides of the track. In this case the difference amounted to several miles.
BTW It's a "Procedural separation" so the distance between it and a conflicting one should be Lots.
Last edited by Lon More; 20th Oct 2011 at 07:15.
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A quick look in the AIP shows that you'd have to fly straight ahead for about 15 miles before enterting the Stanstead CTA (upto 3,500').
I'd imagine the left turn at 2.6D is to ensure separation against BUZAD and CPT departures from Stanstead - but that's just a guess.
Just out of curiosity - why turn at 3 rather than at 2.6?
I'd imagine the left turn at 2.6D is to ensure separation against BUZAD and CPT departures from Stanstead - but that's just a guess.
Just out of curiosity - why turn at 3 rather than at 2.6?
You would have to go a long way east before infringing Stansted's airspace. Luton's control zone boundary goes to at least 8 miles and the control area about 12. Sorry the figures are a bit vague but I haven't got the exact dimensions to hand. The main problem you would have would be the airport's noise and track police banging on your door!
Hope that helps.
Hope that helps.
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thanks everybody, 2.6dme the FMS coding is the letter 'C' ie the third letter fo the alphabet so the plane isnt clever enough to do a turn at 2.6 thats all.
cheers
DD
cheers
DD
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The reason for the apparently "late" turn is because the sim is in America.
Seriously though, in the US you will find that there is a DME in the middle of the airfield and the distance is measured from there. In the UK (and Europe?), you will find that the ILS/DME is configured to read 0 from the airfield boundary.
Thus, the exact same place is 3nm from the centre of the airfield (US settings) and only 2.6nm from the end of the runway (UK settings).
We had exactly the same discussion about an apparently late turn for a SID out of STN when in a simulator in the US.
PS. I get to notice these things because my wings rotate and I am going a bit slower.
Seriously though, in the US you will find that there is a DME in the middle of the airfield and the distance is measured from there. In the UK (and Europe?), you will find that the ILS/DME is configured to read 0 from the airfield boundary.
Thus, the exact same place is 3nm from the centre of the airfield (US settings) and only 2.6nm from the end of the runway (UK settings).
We had exactly the same discussion about an apparently late turn for a SID out of STN when in a simulator in the US.
PS. I get to notice these things because my wings rotate and I am going a bit slower.
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Occams is quite right,the embarrassment for us would be a late turn on this SID against Stansted westbound deps when on RWY 22...Buzad/CPT deps climb initially to 4000' QNH then to min stack when northbound.
