Manchester Ops (23L)
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Manchester Ops (23L)
Just wondering, as i understand it, 23L is closed between 10:30am and 4pm and obviously overnight, i have however seen the A380 depart 23L on numerous occasions.
Can Manchester waive the agreement put in place many years ago when the runway was built for what is obviously a one off departure. It seems strange that the runway has these curfews yet i have seen it on some occasions being used in the afternoon, a youtube search will show this.
I went a few weeks back to try and catch departures further up 23L and the runway didn't even open after 4pm.. So does Manchester have any concrete regulations put in place, or is it all a discretional thing decided upon by expected movements.
Usually the only indicator i know of that 23L is about to come into ops is when the fire brigade shifts their vehicles to the 23L fire station.
Can Manchester waive the agreement put in place many years ago when the runway was built for what is obviously a one off departure. It seems strange that the runway has these curfews yet i have seen it on some occasions being used in the afternoon, a youtube search will show this.
I went a few weeks back to try and catch departures further up 23L and the runway didn't even open after 4pm.. So does Manchester have any concrete regulations put in place, or is it all a discretional thing decided upon by expected movements.
Usually the only indicator i know of that 23L is about to come into ops is when the fire brigade shifts their vehicles to the 23L fire station.
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R/W 23L/05R was developed before the jet-blast issues associated with the A380 were fully understood. If it departs off 23R, the jet efflux would probably demolish the Airport Hotel, (a Robinson's house), or at least blow the slide/bouncy castle over, as the L1011 did several years ago. So there is a safety issue here.
When the development of ATC procedures was undertaken in early 1995, the plan was for 24L/06R, (as it was then), to be available 0600-2200 Local daily. The recent turn-down in traffic has resulted in this not being necessary. It is still available if the original R/W is out of service for any reason.
With any luck, someone from EGCC ATC will be along shortly to fill in all the details.
When the development of ATC procedures was undertaken in early 1995, the plan was for 24L/06R, (as it was then), to be available 0600-2200 Local daily. The recent turn-down in traffic has resulted in this not being necessary. It is still available if the original R/W is out of service for any reason.
With any luck, someone from EGCC ATC will be along shortly to fill in all the details.
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I've seen it depart off 23R on a few occasions and as far as i know the bouncy castle stayed intact! 
There was however some work being done on J1 so it departed further up 23R via JA1 maybe due to the work the aircraft has been able to depart off 23R.
The aircraft also requires(?) a follow me vehicle which i also find very odd, as though it needs extra guidance round the corners or the crew don't know where they are going or maybe with a certain AF 380 hitting an aircraft on the apron maybe they aren't taking any chances.
Why it departed off 23L however in those videos i'm not sure as the time has always been scheduled 2:10pm which is surely within the prohibited hours. The runway now doesn't seem to be used much at all, i've been twice in the last month and it has never been used while i've been there (1100-1630).
There was however some work being done on J1 so it departed further up 23R via JA1 maybe due to the work the aircraft has been able to depart off 23R.The aircraft also requires(?) a follow me vehicle which i also find very odd, as though it needs extra guidance round the corners or the crew don't know where they are going or maybe with a certain AF 380 hitting an aircraft on the apron maybe they aren't taking any chances.
Why it departed off 23L however in those videos i'm not sure as the time has always been scheduled 2:10pm which is surely within the prohibited hours. The runway now doesn't seem to be used much at all, i've been twice in the last month and it has never been used while i've been there (1100-1630).
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The original a380 procedures were for it to depart from 23L regardless of the time, as a special one off movement, similarly it used to land on 05r if on easterly operations. This was due to a much easier taxiway routing for the aircraft, and supposedly easier operations for all concerned at MAN.
However, that has not turned out to be the case, due to opening and closing inspections of the runway 23l/05r, so the a380 now uses the standard runway in use, regardless of time/mode of operation.
There is no issue with jet blast onto the airport pub, it uses J1, just like every other aircraft does too. It has a follow me vehicle due to there being a lack of taxiways it can use, the taxiway signage at MAN isn't the greatest, and should the A380 take the wrong routing it would cause a lot of problems (wheel base and wing tip clearance) the follow me vehicle is a prevention method for anything like that happening, may seem extreme, but you would rather that than another JFK incident happening.
The second runway is also closed from 10.30am on a saturday until 4pm on a sunday, if you have been there during those hours that is why it isn't open then. There are standard hours of being dual runway operations, which can shift by 10 mins depending on traffic situations immediately before/after the scheduled times.
W
However, that has not turned out to be the case, due to opening and closing inspections of the runway 23l/05r, so the a380 now uses the standard runway in use, regardless of time/mode of operation.
There is no issue with jet blast onto the airport pub, it uses J1, just like every other aircraft does too. It has a follow me vehicle due to there being a lack of taxiways it can use, the taxiway signage at MAN isn't the greatest, and should the A380 take the wrong routing it would cause a lot of problems (wheel base and wing tip clearance) the follow me vehicle is a prevention method for anything like that happening, may seem extreme, but you would rather that than another JFK incident happening.
The second runway is also closed from 10.30am on a saturday until 4pm on a sunday, if you have been there during those hours that is why it isn't open then. There are standard hours of being dual runway operations, which can shift by 10 mins depending on traffic situations immediately before/after the scheduled times.
W
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Tha A380 virtually brings Manchester airport to a standstill everytime arrives or departs, flippin nightmare for the rest of us either in the hold 'due wake seperation' or stuck on the taxi-way for 20 mins whilst it pushes, starts and lumbers out, blocking half the apron!! 
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There's a major rebuild of the 'old' 23R/05L runway in progress. So at the moment 23L closes at 20.00LT as per normal ops. There are long standing alternation agreements in place with local authorities as part of the planning permission.
The contractors doing the work on 23R/05L gain possession around 21.15 unless fog is forecast, so 23L/05R is used for both landings and takeoffs until the contractors hand back the runway in the early morning.
Things will get back to normal at the end of the works.
SGC
The contractors doing the work on 23R/05L gain possession around 21.15 unless fog is forecast, so 23L/05R is used for both landings and takeoffs until the contractors hand back the runway in the early morning.
Things will get back to normal at the end of the works.
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window seat
If you fly ,get out of your seat, come to the tower and find out what is involved with the A380 operations from atc /acft ops, you may then know what is involved
If you fly ,get out of your seat, come to the tower and find out what is involved with the A380 operations from atc /acft ops, you may then know what is involved
Last edited by opnot; 3rd Oct 2011 at 20:53.
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I've just found out via NOTAM's that single/dual ops have changed currently due to ATC training. Could explain why whenever i've been in the last week 23L hasn't been in use.
Q) EGTT/QMRLT/IV/NBO/A/000/999/5321N00217W005
B) FROM: 11/10/01 05:30C) TO: 12/02/24 20:00
E) DUAL RWY SEGREGATED OPERATIONS HOURS REDUCED: 01 OCT TO 29 OCT, MON-FRI 0530-0800 AND 1700-1900, SAT 0530-0800, SUN 1700-1900. 30 OCT TO 24 FEB MON-FRI 0630-0900 AND 1800-2000, SAT 0630-0900, SUN 1800-2000. AD 2.20 ITEM 6, USE OF RUNWAYS, REFERS.
Q) EGTT/QMRLT/IV/NBO/A/000/999/5321N00217W005
B) FROM: 11/10/01 05:30C) TO: 12/02/24 20:00
E) DUAL RWY SEGREGATED OPERATIONS HOURS REDUCED: 01 OCT TO 29 OCT, MON-FRI 0530-0800 AND 1700-1900, SAT 0530-0800, SUN 1700-1900. 30 OCT TO 24 FEB MON-FRI 0630-0900 AND 1800-2000, SAT 0630-0900, SUN 1800-2000. AD 2.20 ITEM 6, USE OF RUNWAYS, REFERS.
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I've been a few times, went last friday (7th) and 23L wasn't in use when i got there (around 10-11 ish). Last before that was Sept 15th and i was there about 11 til 3-4.
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Purpose of the 380 is to increase airport utilisation
It sounds that in Manchester the 380 reduces airport capacity.
The main reason apart, from the cost per seat when FULL, was to increase the seats per route, with out the limit of runway or apron capacity....
Glf
The main reason apart, from the cost per seat when FULL, was to increase the seats per route, with out the limit of runway or apron capacity....
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Blue Ashy, so you were there outside opening hours both times. Last friday it will have closed at 9am due to the new closing times.
On the 15th it would have still be open standard hours 0630-1030 and 1600-2000 local, so again you missed out.
The times in the NOTAM are in UTC, which is why a change of an hour after 30th October, when clocks change again :-)
Hope that helps
On the 15th it would have still be open standard hours 0630-1030 and 1600-2000 local, so again you missed out.
The times in the NOTAM are in UTC, which is why a change of an hour after 30th October, when clocks change again :-)
Hope that helps
