Reason for Going-Around

[framer]

If its really that serious, he has already called "MAYDAY!"

There is a disconnect here, a misunderstanding about the basic concept of Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. If it is really that serious (as you say), talking to ATC is third on the list and another sensory input (ie you asking a question) slightly increases the workload of the pilots (ie decreases safety). If it is really that serious, neither pilot may have the mental resources to dedicate to assesing what call to make apart from the standard call...."ABC going round"

Why do think there are at least 2 (two) pilots in a cockpit, called PF and PNF?)

Again , a complete misunderstanding about flying aircraft in non normal situations.

I'd like something like "going around, wind shear".

I know you are busy but a couple of key words provides sufficient info.

Thats great that you'd like those words but there may be higher priorities. The last time I had windshear on finals, nothing showed on the radar, it wasn't reported on the ATIS, the previous a/c had no problems, the following a/c had no problems, and we got shook up so bad that I could only intermitantly read the instruments, we were IMC, we had several different aural alarms going off at once. It was a full time job maintaining controlled flight for about three seconds. Strangely enough the data indicated that the miss was flown accurately with no overspeed of flaps or gear but I tell you what, we had no brain space left for anything other than flying that aircraft. After the event there were several warnings that neither of us could recollect, our brains simply ignored them as they were overloaded. The controller was a bit surprised that we had gone around but didn't ask for the reason until an appropriate time (level at the missed approach altitude ), she was surprised because the weather seemed a bit rough but nothing unusual, nothing that would normally cause a go round.

I can and I will call a/c every time I NEED (to provide safety of course).

And that is a judgement call as to whether it will increase or decrease safety. Nobody else can make that decision for you, it's yours, but your comments about it being 2 crew so whats the problem demonstrate a lack of understanding required to be successfully judicious. The only solution is understanding each others roles and priorities as has already been stated. We need to do regular swaps of the work environment to achieve this.
Just my 2 cents.
Framer

[Guy D'ageradar]

framer - nicely put.

another angle on this is the recent (where I work) decision that all go-arounds MUST be investigated as incidents - and here was poor old me thinking that performing a missed approach was a) a pilot's RIGHT and b) a standard procedure!

[missy]

the following a/c had no problems

Great, but don't you think they like to have known about your wind shear event before they continued the approach?

Had an aircraft report wind shear after they had been parked at the gate for 15 minutes. I guess everyone's ANC is different.

[framer]

Great, but don't you think they like to have known about your wind shear event before they continued the approach?

I'm sure they would have liked to know, they probably would have liked lots of things but I wasn't the one to be giving them anything right at that point in time. Everything I had mentally was being allocated to Aviating, so much so that there wasn't even much Navigating going on, if I could get the wings into a semi level state and the nose somwhere near 15 I was winning. Much more sensible for you to pass on the information that we went around than to ask us why we were going around. Much safer in that particular situation.

[radarman]

Just to emphasise what framer says. A few years ago we had a met situation where turbulence on finals was expected. An A320 went round, but said nothing. I said nothing either as it was obvious what was going on. About ten seconds later the pilot's mike opened, but nobody said anything. Sounds of alarms going off on flight deck, and suddenly a very shaken voice loudly exclaiming 'F*ck me!'. Mike closes. Some fifteen seconds later the pilot safely completed the Aviate, Navigate part, and found time to Communicate. Good on him for getting his priorities right. Now, come on all those controllers who advocate diving in with all sorts of questions - just what would you have gained here by interfering with a pilot frantically trying to control his aircraft?

[tdk90]

Reminds me when I was a young Flying Officer Air Trafficker on my first tour when we had a GR1 divert in, everyone and his dog came up to the tower and caused a huge distraction, OC Arm Flt or similar was even there and piped up what kind of weapons did said GR1 have on board at which point SATCO told him to f...k off out of his tower and everyone else left as well..it was a priceless moment...

[mad_jock]

If pilots are really busy, performing some actions, they can just ignore my message

The simple fact you have spoken to them has distracted them away from what they are doing. They still have to commit processing power to listen and make sure it isn´t an avoiding action. Which to be honest is the only thing I would take any notice of.

As a following aircraft I really don´t mind not knowing what the reason is with the aircraft in front. Yep it puts me on standby for something to happen that might not be normal. I would much prefer not to know than the one in front get distracted.

We know what might of happened and to be honest ATC seem to be more concerned about us not knowing than us. I suppose its a bit like constant wind updates on approach when its under 15 knts and less than 10degs off runway track. That gets a stiff ignoring as well.

[hangten]

Some stories:

In the early days of A319s, when a large airline was in the process of introducing them as replacements for older type 737s all I received was a slightly ruffled and very confused, "It's going around!"

After a request for the tower telephone number following landing, a humble phone call received after parking with the admission that the FO 'pressed the TOGA by mistake looking for his pen'.

Both of which are good enough, frankly! Tell us if and when you can. It's only for paperwork generally and if it's serious then you know when to tell us, either for self preservation or preservation of those following you down the approach. I'm not aware of any requirement to inform us of a reason but if you don't then we'll just make one up (but it won't be one that says it's my fault. )

'Pilot initiated - reason unknown'.

For ATCOs here that want an answer ASAP just be patient, read some of the stuff here about workload. I don't see any reason to talk to a flight crew in the go around except for immediate provision of separation (or other safety critical information).

[The African Dude]

If pilots are really busy, performing some actions, they can just ignore my message

Somebody hassling you in your ear is a distraction, irrespective of whether or not they make the decision - hint: added task - to ignore you.

The equivalent is transmitting on a new frequency without listening out beforehand. I'm sure you would get pretty hacked off if we all did that, wouldn't you?


Edit: Didn't see mad_jock's post... beat me to it.

[CuitoCuanavale]

Framer, from a technical perspective, exceptional description!! I hope as many controllers as possible read your thread.

[bob9]

The eternal question

All,
I am a current RAF fast jet pilot and have stumbled accross your site and read the posts with interest. There was a comment about how we should share each others world and I have to say that happens routinuely in the forces. As a pilot I sit as the aircrew SME in the tower and give advice to the controllers if they wanted it and we understand each other very well.

My only question is this. Why do any small aircraft problems immediately become the most dangerous ever and affect all other planes if one aircraft has a problem? We are all sequenced and believe you me we have a vague understanding not to turn 180 degrees and fly into the ground or another aircraft!!

The reason is simple. Pilots will fly the plane and talk only if important. ATC controllers are as intelligent(or more) but work in an environment where everyone is constantly checking on each other and the smallest perceived mistake will lose them their ticket. They are not allowed the flexibility to run with a situation but need to seek clarification. I have seen it all over the world. Exceptional people and professionals but working to different rules to us.

In short, aircrew think that 95% of our work happens away from the airfield and ATC think that 95% happens around it. We also work to completely different rules. Until this changes, I think these conversations will continue. The only thing to do is accept it give each other a bit of slack i think no?

[Doug E Style]

Was recently on approach to LHR, number 3 with usual min. spacing. We saw the number 1 aircraft going around and before ATC had requested the reason he stated that it was due to severe turbulence on short final. Thus, we and the aircraft ahead had a bit of a heads up and were prepared for this eventuality. Such timely information was a big help considering how dense the inbound traffic was. Forewarned is forearmed! As it turned out, the wind at 150' was a 5 knot tailwind so it seemed the vortices of the preceding aircraft were being blown over the glideslope. We had a bit of a wobble at 150' and it was interesting to watch everyone experiencing the same thing as we taxied back.

[FlightPathOBN]

well stated Framer...aviate, navigate, communicate....

I am sure that any controller understands that the pilot does not take a go around call lightly....

[BOAC]

Originally Posted by radarman

and found time to Communicate.

- from what you describe he had already done that bit

[Grob Queen]

Hello, this is a very interesting thread. As there don't seem to be any obvious student pilots posting messages here, i thought I would add my experince so far...after 34 hours.

Ref the Go-Around reason...I am so pleased that pilots don't have to give the tower a reason for going around, otherwise, the number of times I do when practising Touch and Goes I would sound like a worn record "sorry, c**ked up the approach again..." at my airfield with all the ab initio pilots, thats all the tower would ever hear!

I do not as yet have experience of a purely civvy run airfield/Tower...I am a member of an RAF Flying club at an RAF Airfield where small and large, Prop and Jet aircraft work around each other extremely well, and its better for my R/T and airfield sense such as flying oval ccts and learning the initials join; as our air traffickers don't take any nonsense!

I believe that its good to visit the Tower. I visited ours and DSATCO was brilliant, I think she and her personnel really appreciated that I had taken the time and effort to visit them and see it from their side.

[loubylou]

The Missed Approach at Manchester off 23R and 05R involve a sharp right turn away from the other runway - so the procedure is to re-iterate this and also to give a QNH check.

Also - on the vid it would appear that all the other R/T has been removed so it seems as if the controllers are leaving the pilot with no time to think - I would really doubt that that was the actual time line involved.

I agree that of course you Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, but I don't think that a request to advise the reason for the Go Around when able is unreasonable, once the aircraft appears to be stabalised.

And frankly - you guys could make the effort to come into ATC to spend a few hours listening in to expand your knowledge of ATC, ask why things are done in ceratin ways and also to use that opportunity to educate ATC about issues you have.
I can't recall the last time there was a locally based commercial pilot that came in for a visit.

Louby

[mad_jock]

But I don't think that a request to advise the reason for the Go Around when able is unreasonable, once the aircraft appears to be stabalised.

Its not

Unfortunately I don't think the time line has been squished.

I certainly don't have a problem with you restating the go-around procedure as long as your not looking for a reedback.

Although if its a windshear event as described by the poster above I wouldn't be surprised if the aircraft didn't have the performance to turn. It really is a case of keep the wings level and set the pitch and just hang in there. You can't even put the gear up because it creates to much drag. All the time the PNF is calling out the vertical speed when you get to +100 you stop hearing your heart beat between calls. The come down off the adrenalin surge isn't very pleasant either and it maybe a couple of mins before you get a coherent reply out of us.