Basic/Traffic/FIS???
It must be of some concern that the original poster has apparently reached the stage of the skills test and the RTF test but is very vague in his understanding of this topic. In other words, some of his training time has been wasted - perhaps questions should be asked of the training organisation.
Full marks for querying, Monkey, but SilentHandover and Helen49 have given the best advice. You should have been pointed in that direction by your instructors - but it does require a bit a study and commitment and your part, there is no instant brief answer on a forum such as this.
2 s
Full marks for querying, Monkey, but SilentHandover and Helen49 have given the best advice. You should have been pointed in that direction by your instructors - but it does require a bit a study and commitment and your part, there is no instant brief answer on a forum such as this.
2 s
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R/T for SVFR
no examples in CAP 413 and nothing useful in safety sense 22.
Can anyone be more specific than 413? (callsign, type, eta point of entry).
i.e. do you do a normal initial call (station, call sign, "request Special VFR") followed by the longer bit on acknowledgement (c/s, type, from, to, loc, alt/QNH, request)
or
is there some other way?
Can anyone be more specific than 413? (callsign, type, eta point of entry).
i.e. do you do a normal initial call (station, call sign, "request Special VFR") followed by the longer bit on acknowledgement (c/s, type, from, to, loc, alt/QNH, request)
or
is there some other way?
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Just use
Who your talking to,who you are,what you are, what you want.
Then do as your told.
eg
Jersey zone G-POAI PA28 requesting basic service and SVFR transit Dinard.
G-POAI remain clear of the zone squawk 7677 with ident basic service.
Squawk 7677 with ident basic service G-POAI.
G-POAI cleared into the zone SVFR not above altitude 2000ft qnh 1013 etc etc.
Short and sweet for the intial call but always remember to give an indication of what you want otherwise the next call will just be "pass your message" which is a ball ache for all concerned. Then the controller will ask you suprisingly little depending on what they require or tell you its not possible.
Another time you will get it is if you are operating in controlled airspace at night.
BTW alot of pilots don't have a clue what SVFR is anyway, they won't mention it in the intial call but will be cleared by ATC for transit etc SVFR.
Who your talking to,who you are,what you are, what you want.
Then do as your told.
eg
Jersey zone G-POAI PA28 requesting basic service and SVFR transit Dinard.
G-POAI remain clear of the zone squawk 7677 with ident basic service.
Squawk 7677 with ident basic service G-POAI.
G-POAI cleared into the zone SVFR not above altitude 2000ft qnh 1013 etc etc.
Short and sweet for the intial call but always remember to give an indication of what you want otherwise the next call will just be "pass your message" which is a ball ache for all concerned. Then the controller will ask you suprisingly little depending on what they require or tell you its not possible.
Another time you will get it is if you are operating in controlled airspace at night.
BTW alot of pilots don't have a clue what SVFR is anyway, they won't mention it in the intial call but will be cleared by ATC for transit etc SVFR.
remain clear of the zone
a lot of pilots don't have a clue what SVFR is anyway
they won't mention it in the intial call but will be cleared by ATC for transit etc SVFR
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Most really don't have a clue and to be honest neither do I.
I know the controller has to maintain sparation. Either visually from the tower or by other means.
I know you can't get VFR in controlled airspace at night only SVFR
You need SVFR if you want to go into class A you can't get VFR
You can't get SVFR for crossing airways unless you can con a mil controller into it.
If a controller clears you SVFR read it back continue looking out the window and don't hit anything.
Thats in the UK, other countries its different and best not gone near in my experence if you have the option of an IFR clearance.
I know the controller has to maintain sparation. Either visually from the tower or by other means.
I know you can't get VFR in controlled airspace at night only SVFR
You need SVFR if you want to go into class A you can't get VFR
You can't get SVFR for crossing airways unless you can con a mil controller into it.
If a controller clears you SVFR read it back continue looking out the window and don't hit anything.
Thats in the UK, other countries its different and best not gone near in my experence if you have the option of an IFR clearance.
Most really don't have a clue and to be honest neither do I.
And why are we following this line when the post originator is a student pilot?
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I freely admit it, never instructed in controlled airspace.
As a CAT pilot we always have IFR clearances. I think the last time I accepted SVFR was 7 years ago due to purple airspace in a regional airport.
There is very little in both the PPL air law or the ATPl airlaw about SVFR.
Personally I am not suprised that the OP student doesn't have a clue about SVFR his instructor won't either.
The only pilots that do have a clue about it are ATCO's.
As a CAT pilot we always have IFR clearances. I think the last time I accepted SVFR was 7 years ago due to purple airspace in a regional airport.
There is very little in both the PPL air law or the ATPl airlaw about SVFR.
Personally I am not suprised that the OP student doesn't have a clue about SVFR his instructor won't either.
The only pilots that do have a clue about it are ATCO's.
In UK airspace, SVFR is not 'a right' and is only available at the ATCO's discretion, to pilots/aircraft unable to comply with the IFR. It is intended to enable such pilots/aircraft to reach locations which are in airspace which extends down to the surface, that is, it is not possible to remain clear of such airspace by flying underneath.
SVFR would be more aptly name SIFR.
SVFR would be more aptly name SIFR.
SVFR is not 'a right' and is only available at the ATCO's discretion
2 s
Helen - thank you! I take that as a compliment in this context. There are so many half-truths, inaccuracies and pieces of misleading information on threads such as this that most of the time the original poster would be better served being referred, in Post 2, to an authoritative flying training manual, the ANO or the AIP, etc and ending it all there! One recurring aspect seems to be that some flying training organisations/instructors appear to be falling down on the job.
2 s
2 s
Mad Jock - understood entirely. My concern was that if only a few unqualified snippets are quoted, the uninitiated can get entirely the wrong understanding. That said, I think that details of Special VFR flights are among the last things that the thread originator needs to worry about, except for substituting "Special VFR" for "VFR" if it were to arise in an RTF test.
I don't wish to make a meal of it, but since you asked...!
Cheers
2 s
I don't wish to make a meal of it, but since you asked...!
- "Controller has to maintain separation..." - from which other flights? Depending on circumstances, not necessarily from all others; there could be transit flights operating legitimately under VFR in a Class D CTR.
- "No VFR in controlled airspace at night, only Special VFR..." - as there was no reference to CTRs only, the reader might infer "any controlled airspace." Similarly, with the reference to Class A CAS.
- Reference to crossing airways as a Special VFR flight - first says you cannot, then says that a military controller might be "conned" into it! No such animal as a Special VFR flight across an airway, such flights only relate to CTRs. However, it is possible, under certain conditions to obtain a crossing clearance in VMC by day.
- AIP ENR 1-2-1, Para 2.1 - Special VFR.
- AIP ENR 1-1-1-3, para 4.1.6 - airway crossing.
Cheers
2 s
2s
I agree entirely with your sentiments about all the waffle and mistaken ideas posted on subjects which are pretty much black and white. Always best to refer to the definitive document in my view but perhaps some of the posters don't know where to find the correct doc!
Reminds me of a senior flying instructor relating the fact that in a particular country VFR was not allowed at night; when I informed him that the same rule applied in the UK he challenged me, leaving me to resort to chapter and verse in the ANO!
I realise that the whole business of IMC/VMC; IFR/VFR; airspace categories etc is complex but the understanding of many leaves much to be desired.
I agree entirely with your sentiments about all the waffle and mistaken ideas posted on subjects which are pretty much black and white. Always best to refer to the definitive document in my view but perhaps some of the posters don't know where to find the correct doc!
Reminds me of a senior flying instructor relating the fact that in a particular country VFR was not allowed at night; when I informed him that the same rule applied in the UK he challenged me, leaving me to resort to chapter and verse in the ANO!
I realise that the whole business of IMC/VMC; IFR/VFR; airspace categories etc is complex but the understanding of many leaves much to be desired.
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thanks for that 2 sheds.
Although I don't think my advise to students is to far wrong
And mil controllers can be good for a few things that a civi controller won't go near.
eg visual climb against under radar control for example.
I might add the lack of knowledge about SVFR is really only for plank drivers the rotary pilots are alot more clued up about it (or seem to be)
There is proberly a whole raft of commercial pilots out there that have never been under a SVFR clearance in the UK. The US SVFR is quite a bit different and as almost all there flying training is done over there with only the IR done in the UK, it never comes up. Once you are flying the line there are only a very very few companys who will allow you to cancel IFR. So unless you are an instructor doing night ratings at an airfield in controlled airspace or based in the SE of england you won't go near it.
Although I don't think my advise to students is to far wrong
If a controller clears you SVFR read it back continue looking out the window and don't hit anything.
eg visual climb against under radar control for example.
I might add the lack of knowledge about SVFR is really only for plank drivers the rotary pilots are alot more clued up about it (or seem to be)
There is proberly a whole raft of commercial pilots out there that have never been under a SVFR clearance in the UK. The US SVFR is quite a bit different and as almost all there flying training is done over there with only the IR done in the UK, it never comes up. Once you are flying the line there are only a very very few companys who will allow you to cancel IFR. So unless you are an instructor doing night ratings at an airfield in controlled airspace or based in the SE of england you won't go near it.
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One recurring aspect seems to be that some flying training organisations/instructors appear to be falling down on the job.
A PPL is really about landing the thing in one piece, avoid getting lost, and having an idea about what to do in case the spinning bit at the front stops spinning...
45 hours training from scratch is really a short time to get up to speed with all aspects of aviating, navigating, communicating, and they really are dealt with in that order! So the communicating bit always gets the least attention for obvious reasons..
