ATC decent clearances..

[MIGHTY 8]

Hello all,

Scenario:

You are initially assigned a clearance by ATC to decend to cross a fix at lower altitude...

Then one recieves another clearance by same ATC controller, to decend to an altitude that is lower then that initial crossing restriction.

Question:

Without question, are you now cleared to bypass initial crossing restriction and to continue to the lower (latest) altitude clearance?

If possible, please reference FAR's/Regulations in your responses....

Thank you.

[The Fat Controller]

This has been covered many times on here.

In the UK, a new clearance CANCELS the previous clearance.

Simple as that.

[ATCO Two]

My descent clearances are always decent!

[MIGHTY 8]

You would be amazed at the many different responses this question produces!

Again....Can someone produce some regs. to back their responses with, pls??

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Problem is, nobody knows where you are and regs might be different in your country.

[The Fat Controller]

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP493Part1.pdf

7.1 When an amendment is made to a clearance the new clearance shall be read in full to the pilot and shall automatically cancel any previous clearance.

Controllers must be aware, therefore, that if the original clearance included a restriction, e.g. “cross ABCFL150 or below” then the issue of a revised clearance automatically cancels the earlier restriction, unless it is reiterated with the revised clearance.

[Not Long Now]

And yet on departure, instructing to climb FL170 does not cancel a 6000' altitude restriction unless we include 'now' or 'sid cancelled'.
Go figure....

[Blockla]

And yet on departure, instructing to climb FL170 does not cancel a 6000' altitude restriction unless we include 'now' or 'sid cancelled'.

But it does almost everywhere other than UK... Similarly if issued a STAR and told When Ready Descend to FL210 (and the STAR has say reach A080 by 20DME) and then you later clear the a/c to FL150... do you need to reissue the STAR or imply it still implies.... Can of worms really...

[Not Long Now]

and yet the reason given for having to say now was that pilots from everywhere else outside the UK were confused and would wait at the sid restriction until sid ended and then climb.
Hmmm...

[MIGHTY 8]

This about sums it up!

Thanks for all the responses..

My conclusion (and procedure from here on out!):

ALWAYS GET CLARIFICATION!!

[Pylut737]

FAA order 7110.65 Paragraph 4-2-5 b. When route or altitude in a previously issued clearance is amended, restate all applicable altitude restrictions.

[MIGHTY 8]

Pylut737...


Your sir, are owed a beer on me!

Thank you for clarifying a situation which had arisen on a recent flight. I now can retort my colleague with cold hard black-and-white facts...

And most importantly...Prove I was correct!


Thank you again..

[Pylut737]

The way it was explained to me, by a New York Center controller, many years ago, the controller has to restate altitude restrictions that still apply or s/he could use the phrase "previous restrictions apply".

Leffe Blonde is the prefered beverage!