Heathrow Tower ATCO Query
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Heathrow Tower ATCO Query
Was hoping someone would be able to help me out with an idea of the number of Tower ATCOs there are usually rostered for a shift at Heathrow.
Nothing sinister in this request, as we are just trying to look at the required numbers of ATCOs needed for a similairly configured airport, that is with one runway for arrivals and one runway for departures (albeit obviously with less traffic).
I did find online that at any time there are 3 Ground Controllers, 2 Aerodrome Controllers (1 for each runway) and one Planner Controller. Is this correct? And in addition to the 6 ATCOs plugged in how many ATCOs would be fulfilling Supervisor duties and on breaks? I am also assuming that the clearance delivery function is provided not by an ATCO but instead via Data-link, is that a correct assumption?
Thanks in advance of any information provided.
Cheers ANSA
Nothing sinister in this request, as we are just trying to look at the required numbers of ATCOs needed for a similairly configured airport, that is with one runway for arrivals and one runway for departures (albeit obviously with less traffic).
I did find online that at any time there are 3 Ground Controllers, 2 Aerodrome Controllers (1 for each runway) and one Planner Controller. Is this correct? And in addition to the 6 ATCOs plugged in how many ATCOs would be fulfilling Supervisor duties and on breaks? I am also assuming that the clearance delivery function is provided not by an ATCO but instead via Data-link, is that a correct assumption?
Thanks in advance of any information provided.
Cheers ANSA
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ANSA
Similarly configured as in two runways with a crossing runway, available parking slots, GMC, traffic running from four stacks, BNN, LAM, BIG & OCK, 2.5 NM between landers. Movements at 100% capacity!
A big question and over to HD on this one.
Cheers and good luck at OMAA
Similarly configured as in two runways with a crossing runway, available parking slots, GMC, traffic running from four stacks, BNN, LAM, BIG & OCK, 2.5 NM between landers. Movements at 100% capacity!
A big question and over to HD on this one.
Cheers and good luck at OMAA
Last edited by Vercingetorix; 19th Mar 2011 at 07:28.
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Ok I appreciate your enlightenment on Heathrow being busier than Abu Dhabi, I wouldn't have realised otherwise. Given the fact that London Heathrow is the 12th busiest airport in the world based on traffic movements and 4th busiest based on passengers handled, I was aware of that fact.
I am purely looking at the staffing requirements when an airport such as AD goes to simultaneous parrallel operations where (not due traffic) due to geographic size (2 KM between runways) there may be a need for multiple ground controllers. Heathrow was the one that came to mind.
Verci, I was advised that the smaller crossing runway was only used where there is strong crosswinds making landings on the usual runway unsuitable, and as such the crossing runway is not used simultaneously with the parralel runways (for arrivals). Happy to be corrected on that.
As I said above this isn't a pissing contest, as I know Heathrow has four stacks and handles traffic 2.5 NM apart day and night. I am just looking for some info on running parrallel runways, one for arrivals and one for departures, and what the ATCO staffing for that is.
Anyone actually from Heathrow able to help me?
Cheers.
I am purely looking at the staffing requirements when an airport such as AD goes to simultaneous parrallel operations where (not due traffic) due to geographic size (2 KM between runways) there may be a need for multiple ground controllers. Heathrow was the one that came to mind.
Verci, I was advised that the smaller crossing runway was only used where there is strong crosswinds making landings on the usual runway unsuitable, and as such the crossing runway is not used simultaneously with the parralel runways (for arrivals). Happy to be corrected on that.
As I said above this isn't a pissing contest, as I know Heathrow has four stacks and handles traffic 2.5 NM apart day and night. I am just looking for some info on running parrallel runways, one for arrivals and one for departures, and what the ATCO staffing for that is.
Anyone actually from Heathrow able to help me?
Cheers.
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When last involved with the 'eathrow boys they were using staggered parallels as the distance between the two runways was not sufficient to allow for full parallel operation.
Why not pm HD or give the Dane a ring for his input? (only joking on the latter)
Alternatively give the GCAA Regulator a call. There are one or two experienced heads there.
DOC 4444 Chapter 6 gives the whys and wherefores.
Stay cool
Why not pm HD or give the Dane a ring for his input? (only joking on the latter)
Alternatively give the GCAA Regulator a call. There are one or two experienced heads there.
DOC 4444 Chapter 6 gives the whys and wherefores.
Stay cool
Last edited by Vercingetorix; 19th Mar 2011 at 08:02.
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There are no crossing runways at Heathrow, just the two east-west parallels.
I haven't worked in the tower there for 18 years so it would be inappropriate for me to comment on staffing. Gonzo might help?
I haven't worked in the tower there for 18 years so it would be inappropriate for me to comment on staffing. Gonzo might help?
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HD, yep, they took out the cross runway for parking.
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ANSA,
Hong Kong CLK had 2 ADC(arrivals and departures) 2 GMC (North and South) 1 Clearance Delivery(data link clearance to some operators),1 Tower co-ordinator(multi tasking).It also had a zone control and sector which was a FIS to traffic outside the zone.These positions were often band-boxed onto Tower co-ordinator.The supervisor did some breaks,but not that many as they were Cantonise fluent,and took most of the external calls.Obviously positions were band-boxed at night etc.
We did up to 800 per 24hr on that combination (I left in 2001),but it is certainly more nowadays.
You need any bodies with parallel runway experience?
Hong Kong CLK had 2 ADC(arrivals and departures) 2 GMC (North and South) 1 Clearance Delivery(data link clearance to some operators),1 Tower co-ordinator(multi tasking).It also had a zone control and sector which was a FIS to traffic outside the zone.These positions were often band-boxed onto Tower co-ordinator.The supervisor did some breaks,but not that many as they were Cantonise fluent,and took most of the external calls.Obviously positions were band-boxed at night etc.
We did up to 800 per 24hr on that combination (I left in 2001),but it is certainly more nowadays.
You need any bodies with parallel runway experience?
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Re te discontinued RWY23L. I do remember an occasion during watch change over time at EGLL (1945 Z) when a departing aircraft had to climb out over a back tracking aircraft 'cos the off going GMC chap forgot to co-ordinate with the newly arrived Dep ATCO. If I remember correctly a HS125 versus a Trident.
'twas before 'elf & safety.
Cheers
When ATC was for men with hairy chests and medallions, not supersoft metrosexuals!
Re te discontinued RWY23L. I do remember an occasion during watch change over time at EGLL (1945 Z) when a departing aircraft had to climb out over a back tracking aircraft 'cos the off going GMC chap forgot to co-ordinate with the newly arrived Dep ATCO. If I remember correctly a HS125 versus a Trident.
'twas before 'elf & safety.
Cheers
When ATC was for men with hairy chests and medallions, not supersoft metrosexuals!
Last edited by Vercingetorix; 19th Mar 2011 at 11:46.
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Since nobody has answered the actual question just up the road we roster 9 and work with aminimum of 7 to cover two air positions, ground planner, ground control, co-ordinator and Sup.
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ANSA - pissing contests aside, size has never mattered anywhere I've worked! 
Surely complexity is the overriding factor when considering number of ATCO's required to man GMC?
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Surely complexity is the overriding factor when considering number of ATCO's required to man GMC?'69
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Typical config;
2 air controllers
3 GMC controllers
1 GMP controller
1 Supervisor
Most of the time just 2 GMC frequencies open with GMC3 (terminal 5 ) bandboxed onto GMC1.
11 ATCO's rostered per shift would be a typical figure.
Btw Gonzo off getting married so I thought I'd answer on his behalf!
2 air controllers
3 GMC controllers
1 GMP controller
1 Supervisor
Most of the time just 2 GMC frequencies open with GMC3 (terminal 5 ) bandboxed onto GMC1.
11 ATCO's rostered per shift would be a typical figure.
Btw Gonzo off getting married so I thought I'd answer on his behalf!
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You will still have to put it up to the GCCA Regulator for approval so why not involve them in the process from the start? They do, as previously stated, have some sensible heads there.
Be a bit hard to justify, when you do your approval presentation, and they ask where you got your staffing requirements and you say: "Well, Pprune, Sir".
To infinity and beyond and, hopefully, back in time for tea.
Be a bit hard to justify, when you do your approval presentation, and they ask where you got your staffing requirements and you say: "Well, Pprune, Sir".
To infinity and beyond and, hopefully, back in time for tea.
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As you know Verci, unlike some of our nearby colleagues, we do get all proposed changes pre-approved by the regulator, and we encourage their involvement in our change management process (which always includes a full safety assessment again accepted by the regulator).
This was purely a bit of an unofficial fact finding mission to give us a baseline to create some draft procedures from, upon which we assess for risk and modify as required to mitigate the unacceptable risks.
Cheers.
This was purely a bit of an unofficial fact finding mission to give us a baseline to create some draft procedures from, upon which we assess for risk and modify as required to mitigate the unacceptable risks.
Cheers.
