Dubai Approach, what is going on?

[Gonzo]

Shame. Taking the aiport approach units away from the airports in London was one of the worst things ever to happen.

[Crazy Voyager]

Just out of intrest (as always with my posts from someone who isn't an ATC, just hoping to become one). What are the pros/cons with having approach at the airports? I belive (from reading reports off the internet) that for example at LFPG departure and approach controllers are located at the airport (perhaps even in the VRC?). But at the London airports we know this isn't the case, what are (in your opinions, the ATCs) the pros and cons of the various arrangments?

[Gonzo]

Major impact is a growing disconnect between the Approach unit and the Tower, lack of appreciation of the radar task by tower ATCOs and vice versa. I'm willing to be corrected, but I don't think it's brought about any improvements in service/safety that are dependent upon the Approach task being in Terminal Control.

[throw a dyce]

It probably depends on experience.There must be a lot of controllers at the London airports and TC who have never validated the other rating.You can be single validation,but have held the other validation elsewhere,and it's easy to appreciate the other persons problems.
Interesting that Dubai is streaming now,and recruiting people from the London airports.Are they recruiting people who have validated both,or just single validation.

[Gonzo]

Obviously there are differences between those in the tower who have held radar validations in the past, those who have at least done the Approach Radar course and never validated, and those who have never even done the Approach Radar course, but the issues we've seen span all three groups. In some cases having a little (possibly out of date) knowledge is worse then none at all, in others it helps a great deal. I'm sure it's the same for TC in the reverse.

[throw a dyce]

Am I right in thinking that you have to have 4 or 5 years validated experience of Tower,and Approach Radar to be suitable for Dubai.That used to be the requirement,unless the goal posts have moved.

[Crazy Voyager]

How common is it in the UK to have several validations? If I compare to Sweden, here everyone has approach validation, then you on top of that have tower or Area aswell (this is due to the fact that both our ACCs provide approach services and many towers provide approach service).

Do you belive that having a double validation increases the efficency of the work since coordination etc becomes easier when you have been on both sides? And how does it work if someone is double validated and is, say working tower, can that person have more allowance when it comes to giving headings etc (since they have a validation on approach it would be reasonable that they would know what headings can be given etc) or is that all regulated in the MATSp2 for each unit (Air is allowed to vector in these sectors etc but not above bla bla altitude and so on)?

[Guy D'ageradar]

Am I right in thinking that you have to have 4 or 5 years validated experience of Tower,and Approach Radar to be suitable for Dubai.

I'm pretty sure the goalposts have, at least, been split.

Speaking for my watch, almost all of the approach guys have previous tower validations, some of them here. For the tower guys, I'm not sure whether many have ever worked approach but some certainly show a great deal more understanding of what's going on than others! THAT is the undisputed benefit of dual validations - each is able to understand not just what but why the other is doing as he does.

As Gonzo says, one of the worst things to happen to a tower/approach unit.

[aclark79]

As a pilot new to the UAE and Abu Dhabi specifically, is it possible to come for a tower/approach facilities tour? I'll be spending most of my time in Saudi, but it would be nice to see the facilities here.

Thanks!