who has the best controllers?
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In 1973, French controllers didn't have a right to strike. They did go on strike.
See the result ?
BBC ON THIS DAY | 5 | 1973: Mid-air collision kills 68
Overpressure valves should see their "right to open" removed too. Why lose pressure ?
As always, the best (and only) way to avoid a strike is to remove the reason for the strike.
See the result ?
BBC ON THIS DAY | 5 | 1973: Mid-air collision kills 68
Overpressure valves should see their "right to open" removed too. Why lose pressure ?
As always, the best (and only) way to avoid a strike is to remove the reason for the strike.
Last edited by BrATCO; 14th Oct 2010 at 10:17.
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A comparison between controllers? Really a hard thing to do.
London airspace surely is different to Amsterdams. Efficency in an upper airspace center is way easier to achieve than in a terminal area, isn´t it?
However, a real good controller is the one that does not kill my pax and me, and prevents me from doing so. That might be in a super busy circuit or airspace or a remote tower in the middle of nowhere.
All the extras like directs etc. are nice to have, no doubt, but are just that.
Having said that, I really enjoy flying in EHAM from time to time. Most accomodating guys them Dutch, even if I hate their camping cars on MY Autobahn.
Swing into 22? No prob mate. Can we get 27 instead of 18R? Yeah sure, turn now...and some guys humor is just cracking...
London airspace surely is different to Amsterdams. Efficency in an upper airspace center is way easier to achieve than in a terminal area, isn´t it?
However, a real good controller is the one that does not kill my pax and me, and prevents me from doing so. That might be in a super busy circuit or airspace or a remote tower in the middle of nowhere.
All the extras like directs etc. are nice to have, no doubt, but are just that.
Having said that, I really enjoy flying in EHAM from time to time. Most accomodating guys them Dutch, even if I hate their camping cars on MY Autobahn.
Swing into 22? No prob mate. Can we get 27 instead of 18R? Yeah sure, turn now...and some guys humor is just cracking...
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It has got to be EGHE (Isles of Scilly) as the last time they advertised for ATCO's
they said they could provide the application form in braile if needed.
Any Airport that can operate with blind ATCO's has got to be good.
they said they could provide the application form in braile if needed.
Any Airport that can operate with blind ATCO's has got to be good.
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In Europe, according the ACE benchmark report, Maastricht UAC is BY FAR the most efficient.
Much of their criteria and comparisons I find have no bearing on the real job of doing ATC, wherever that may be in the world.
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Whatever the criteria, no-one could benchmark ATC operations. I'm qualified on only 11 different sectors, they are all different. Still more different when split vertically. How could one benchmark that ?
To benchmark APP, there should be similarities. Where are they ?
EBBR, EBCI, EDDF, EDDK, EGLL, EGKK, EHAM, LFPG, LFPO, LFQQ, EBBR... How can you compare anything ?
Now, MUAC is BY FAR the "most efficient". OK...
How much does it cost ?
Much more, BY FAR !
Is that important ? I don't know.
Anyway, benchmarking is a nonsense.
To benchmark APP, there should be similarities. Where are they ?
EBBR, EBCI, EDDF, EDDK, EGLL, EGKK, EHAM, LFPG, LFPO, LFQQ, EBBR... How can you compare anything ?
Now, MUAC is BY FAR the "most efficient". OK...
How much does it cost ?
Much more, BY FAR !
Is that important ? I don't know.
Anyway, benchmarking is a nonsense.
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I just wanted to ask BrATCO a question (since he seems to be one of the few who have been able to remain cool-headed despite this subject):
Don't you have the impression to observe a competition of pupils who are trying to determine who can pee the farthest?
This topic is meaningless since every ATC is completely different depending of the airspace, the traffic density, the procedures, the tools available for ATCO and far more reasons!
I will just say again that the best ATCO is someone who doesn't kill people!
The question is as relevant as asking which is the quickest: a lake or a poem! that pure nonsense! And please, ATCOs, stop trying to boast yourselves that just pitiful...
Nock
Don't you have the impression to observe a competition of pupils who are trying to determine who can pee the farthest?
This topic is meaningless since every ATC is completely different depending of the airspace, the traffic density, the procedures, the tools available for ATCO and far more reasons!
I will just say again that the best ATCO is someone who doesn't kill people!
The question is as relevant as asking which is the quickest: a lake or a poem! that pure nonsense! And please, ATCOs, stop trying to boast yourselves that just pitiful...
Nock
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Have a look at the Eurocontrol site
Eurocontrol Maastricht UAC - About Us
To quote (with my bold type edit):
Eurocontrol Maastricht UAC - About Us
To quote (with my bold type edit):
EUROCONTROL's Maastricht Upper Area Control Centre (UAC) ensures the safe, efficient and expeditious flow of civil aircraft in the upper airspace (above 24,500 feet, or roughly 7.5 km) of Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg and the North-West of Germany.
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EUROCONTROL's Maastricht Upper Area Control Centre (UAC) ensures the safe, efficient and expeditious flow of civil aircraft in the upper airspace (above 24,500 feet, or roughly 7.5 km) of Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg and the North-West of Germany.
Who does less ?
That's what ANSPs are supposed to do.
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Nock,
As for who's got the biggest, I've got the answer, but I'll keep it hidden.
(No link with ATC...)
Don't you have the impression to observe a competition of pupils who are trying to determine who can pee the farthest?
(No link with ATC...)
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trafficnotsighted,
Any Twr/APP controller must be able to cope with a radar failure during LVP. That's almost being blind...
Any Airport that can operate with blind ATCO's has got to be good.
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BrATCO
As for who's got the biggest, I've got the answer, but I'll keep it hidden.
(No link with ATC...)
(No link with ATC...)
I really don't know who the best ATCO is but the competition for the most self-important ATCO is of a very high level, good luck for all the competitors you all have great dispositions...
Just another question, if you think that you are the best controller of the world (or among the best) how comes that you dare to send traffic to other controllers that are not as brilliant as you? Because by doing this you're jeopardizing passenger's lifes!
dummies...
Nock
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to quote (with my bold type edit):
.... and at least MUAC got rid of the Euronator back to the UK
Must be worth 10% 
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Maastricht UAC is BY FAR the most efficient
I was in the jump seat wearing a headset, somewhere high over the Netherlands, when I felt the need to ask the First Officer whether the headset was working. His response was to call "Speedbird 958, radio check". The ground responded "958, radio check". He then explained "Apart from Hello and Goodbye, that's all you ever hear on this frequency".
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10W,
No problem and no argument with a straight cut and paste from the MUAC website. What I have a difficulty with is a blatant (unfounded and incorrect) insinuation of collusion in doctoring published figures.
How intimately acquainted are you with the workings of the PMU / PRC?
No problem and no argument with a straight cut and paste from the MUAC website. What I have a difficulty with is a blatant (unfounded and incorrect) insinuation of collusion in doctoring published figures.
How intimately acquainted are you with the workings of the PMU / PRC?
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Apart from the the LTMA, NY, SOCAL and O'Hare, listening to the folks on Manchester Tower, Approach and Area Control, - this unit always seemed to set a fairly high standard in what was, (still is, according to ICAO), a fairly complex TMA environment.
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Best ATC in the World
Wow, some egos here!
However, those same egos are what the management of every air traffic control centre relies upon. If the ATCOs don't believe that they are the best in the world at your centre/unit, then something is wrong.
For that reason I write this post with my real name; I have worked as an ATCO in London TMA, London Area, and Maastricht UAC, and I can indeed confirm that each unit has the best air traffic controllers in the world!
What I cannot accept though, is the allusion that Eurocontrol PRU somehow colludes with Maastricht UAC to either create sympathetic indicators, or perhaps even to plain cheat on the statistics. Please take the time and the effort to educate yourself in respect to the rigour and the fierce independence with which the PRU exercises in terms of data gathering, performance management and reporting. I will even give you the link;
EUROCONTROL - Welcome to the Performance Review Commission (PRC)
Then please read further, and learn from the PRU ACE (benchmarking report), that Maastricht UAC airspace is in fact one of the most complex regions of airspace in Europe. At the same time Maastricht UAC is the 2nd biggest ATC centre (by traffic volume), by far the most productive, and approximately half the cost of the next nearest ANSPs in the core region (say NATS for example), and up to one quarter of the price of some neighbouring ANSPs.
Yet Maastricht UAC manages to achieve these results with an excellent safety record, very satisfied customers, and contented staff. How does this happen? Is this because we have the best ATCOs, or more generally the best staff in the world??
If anybody is genuinely interested in answering this question, I would like you to accept my invitation to visit us here at Maastricht UAC, where you can perhaps understand first-hand why we perform as we do. Please message me, or reply to
[email protected]
and I will arrange individual/group visits with 'access all areas' at Maastricht UAC.
Best regards
Robin Hickson
Operations Management Team
Maastricht UAC
However, those same egos are what the management of every air traffic control centre relies upon. If the ATCOs don't believe that they are the best in the world at your centre/unit, then something is wrong.
For that reason I write this post with my real name; I have worked as an ATCO in London TMA, London Area, and Maastricht UAC, and I can indeed confirm that each unit has the best air traffic controllers in the world!
What I cannot accept though, is the allusion that Eurocontrol PRU somehow colludes with Maastricht UAC to either create sympathetic indicators, or perhaps even to plain cheat on the statistics. Please take the time and the effort to educate yourself in respect to the rigour and the fierce independence with which the PRU exercises in terms of data gathering, performance management and reporting. I will even give you the link;
EUROCONTROL - Welcome to the Performance Review Commission (PRC)
Then please read further, and learn from the PRU ACE (benchmarking report), that Maastricht UAC airspace is in fact one of the most complex regions of airspace in Europe. At the same time Maastricht UAC is the 2nd biggest ATC centre (by traffic volume), by far the most productive, and approximately half the cost of the next nearest ANSPs in the core region (say NATS for example), and up to one quarter of the price of some neighbouring ANSPs.
Yet Maastricht UAC manages to achieve these results with an excellent safety record, very satisfied customers, and contented staff. How does this happen? Is this because we have the best ATCOs, or more generally the best staff in the world??
If anybody is genuinely interested in answering this question, I would like you to accept my invitation to visit us here at Maastricht UAC, where you can perhaps understand first-hand why we perform as we do. Please message me, or reply to
[email protected]
and I will arrange individual/group visits with 'access all areas' at Maastricht UAC.
Best regards
Robin Hickson
Operations Management Team
Maastricht UAC
Would love to think you'll get a response to the open invitation.