Yet more FISO questions

[CraigyD]

Hi all, first post in this section of the forum.

Looking for a change of job at the moment and have been reading through old posts about how to become a FISO and I am really quite interested. The only questions I have not found answers to are:

Can you earn a living being a FISO?

Are you generally paid during training (practical training I mean)?

and

Assuming you pass the exams, do you just call around to airfields with a hope one might say "yer, come along and we'll train you!"?

Much appreciated!

Craigyd

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I'm sure some FISOs will respond. In the meantime...

Depends on how much you need to live. FISOs are paid, but not a fortune.

I do not know about pay arrangements during training.

In response to your last, yes - that's about it... and watch the adverts.

Presumably you are fully familiar with this:

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP427.PDF

[CraigyD]

HD,

Thanks for your reply. I have had a brisk read through some of the docs to see whats involved, I really think I will enjoy the job.

I currently work as cabin crew so I am used to not earning a fortune! Oh, guess I should mention I hold a PPL, working (very slowly indeed) towards CPL at the moment.

Do vancancies arise that often do you know?

Craigyd

[Foxy Loxy]

CraigyD,

You post your location as London.
You could try Fairoaks, Denham and Elstree as a start, see if they have anything going.

[chevvron]

I would suggest you take the exams first as you are unlikely to get sponsorship from an airfield. Pay varies from airfield to airfield; some pay by the day others by the hour. When fully certificated ie when you pass a competency test at an airfield, £10 - £12/hour is roughly the rate for a 40 hour week. After passing the exams, training will be a minimum of 40 hours of which only 4 hours/day can be counted towards MER (minimum experience requirement) before you can take a competency test at which a CAA Examiner may or may not attend - most airfields get their own local examiner approved by the CAA.

[chevvron]

At the airfield where I work, all the FISO's have or have held pilot's licences although it's not a pre-requisite; I had a PPL and became a FISO when I retired as an ATCO.
Blackbushe is another possibility and if you're prepared to travel (don't know where you live in London) maybe Rochester.

[Dannyboyblue]

Pay at the moment is not fantastic but it keeps you in the aviation environment, if your doing your cpl's it will help a fair bit with getting a job. Every FISO i have worked with who had a cpl/atpl have got flying work from being in the tower.

Pay during training is becoming a rare thing now. Some small airfields (certainly the one i work at) require the commitment of working for free during your training. Pretty crap deal to be honest but if your confident of being able to pass then you get a job out of it in the end.

The other thing is that for a first validation it will normall take around 70-80 hours of training. 40 is the minimum but not the norm unless you are experienced.

Definately do the writtens first under your own steam, i believe they are now held 4 times a year at Gatwick, not sure on the cost but you will only need to take 2 of the 4 as you hold a PPL.

DBB

[chevvron]

I was paid during training.
When you pass the written exams, why not apply for an A/G Certificate of Competency. It's another string to your bow, it's free, and it means if you're considered suitable, the holder of the airport radio licence can allow you to operate solo using A/G phraseology before you validate as a FISO, plus they're unlikely to expect you to take on that responsibility without paying you. The only drawback is you can't count A/G time towards the MER for FISO.

[CraigyD]

Thanks guys, this is all really useful information!

I have downloaded copies of the training manual and will work through them.

The closest fields to me (both towered) are Red Hill and Biggin Hill, to give you an idea of where I am. I am prepared to travel if needs be ( I will have to do some anyway. I would also consider relocating).

I will look into the A/G certificate of competency as well.

Again, thanks everyone!

Craigyd

[chevvron]

Redhill and Biggin are both ATC not FISO, but that puts you in a position where Rochester might be feasible.

[Squadgy]

When you pass the written exams, why not apply for an A/G Certificate of Competency. It's another string to your bow, it's free, and it means if you're considered suitable, the holder of the airport radio licence can allow you to operate solo using A/G phraseology before you validate as a FISO, plus they're unlikely to expect you to take on that responsibility without paying you. The only drawback is you can't count A/G time towards the MER for FISO.

An airfield which is published in the AIP as being FIS can't just revert to A/G without issuing a NOTAM to that effect. Some airfields are published as being able to offer both services, however I understand CAA SRG are trying to get away from this and ensure a consistent level of service is porvided.

[Talkdownman]

Aerodrome FIS is required for those aircraft operations which need to comply with The Air Navigation (General) Regulations Section 13 (Aeroplanes flying for the purpose of public transport of passengers—aerodrome facilities for approach to landing and landing). If the aerodrome does not enjoy such continuous custom why should CAA SRG insist upon a consistent level of service which could have commercial implications?

[chevvron]

Squadgy: ever considered level of cover required outside normal aerodrome hours for non public transport? If no FISO is available, an A/G Operator might be the alternative.

[Talkdownman]

AIP entry for base states 'ATIS service is subject to downgrade to A/G at short notice'. With Aerodrome Operator duties of care applicable in either case there is not much difference between the services. Traffic information is passed both under FIS and A/G in the interest of Rule 45 compliance to enable flight to be conducted safely within the zone, and a close eye is kept by the Aerodrome Operator on runway occupancy in the interest of customer service obligations, so there ain't much difference...apart from staff costs. Aerodrome Operators wouldn't like it if CAA SRG insisted upon a consistent type of service for no apparent reason. At base only a very small number of movements actually legally require FIS so the service is, most of the time, already over and above what is legally required. It would seem that remuneration for FISOs in the London area is generally about one and a half times the National Minimum Wage.

[CraigyD]

9 FLIGHT INFORMATION SERVICE OFFICERS
9.1 Licensing of FISOs
a) On application for the grant of a FISO Licence, the applicant shall pay a charge of
£100, and for any written examination required for the above, the applicant shall
pay a charge of £113.
b) Upon application for the naming of a place, or any additional place, in a FISO
Licence, the applicant shall pay a charge of £66, and for any examination
conducted by the CAA for that purpose, the applicant shall pay a charge of £620.
9.2 Authorisation as an examiner for validity examinations
On application for appointment as an examiner authorised to conduct examinations for
the FISO Licence, the applicant shall pay a charge of £620.

Expensive! Have you guys had to pay the £620 charge or have your generous new employers forked out the cost for you?

Edit again. Anyone thinking of sitting the exams at Gatwick on Thursday 28th October?

[Glamdring]

CraigyD: Any particular reason for not wanting to send an application in to NATS?

[CraigyD]

CraigyD: Any particular reason for not wanting to send an application in to NATS?

Does there need to be one?............

[eastern wiseguy]

Craigyd Why not raise your ambitions and try the ATCO route?. You WILL get paid during training and you WILL have a job at the end of it.

[Glamdring]

Originally Posted by CraigyD

Does there need to be one?............

Not at all. With your interest in being a FISO I was, perhaps mistakingly, assuming that you had already considered ATCO training and was just wondering why you had discounted it.

[CraigyD]

Glamdring, I think my response came across as pretty rude and I apologise.

I guess the main reason is I am currently working through ATPL exams at the moment (just recieved confirmation of my first 6 booked on 7th/8th/9th September) and I think going down the ATC route will be asking a bit to much of myself. I know FISO training won't be easy but im sure it won't be as taxing as ATC training (can't remember how long the training is off the top of my head). What do you think?