Preferred Callsign Format
Join Date: Mar 2008
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imo not a really good solution...
say, for instance, ryanair goes on a shopping spree again and buys a gazillion new B738s and registers them all at the same time in Ireland, The would most likely get sequenced registrations, which means you can end up with ten ryanairs on the frequency, all with registrations which have only one letter different.
Could become a little confusing again.
Also, in a lot of cases, i find saying a callsign rolls of the tongue much easier than spelling out a reg.
say, for instance, ryanair goes on a shopping spree again and buys a gazillion new B738s and registers them all at the same time in Ireland, The would most likely get sequenced registrations, which means you can end up with ten ryanairs on the frequency, all with registrations which have only one letter different.
Could become a little confusing again.
Also, in a lot of cases, i find saying a callsign rolls of the tongue much easier than spelling out a reg.
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Or, for example, bmi A321 fleet includes:
G-MIDC
G-MIDE
G-MIDH
G-MIDI
G-MIDJ
G-MIDK
G-MIDL
Could prove very confusing and easily lead to callsign confusion if they're all in the same bit of airspace or airport.
G-MIDC
G-MIDE
G-MIDH
G-MIDI
G-MIDJ
G-MIDK
G-MIDL
Could prove very confusing and easily lead to callsign confusion if they're all in the same bit of airspace or airport.
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Back in the days of old many flights used aircraft used registration letters as callsigns and there were several large fleets all with similar registrations. Eg BEA Vanguards were all G-APE*. I don't recall much confusion then.. Problem now is the stored FPLN system uses callsigns derived from flight numbers as particular aircraft are used on different routes each day.
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I find Lufthansa codes (selected and arranged with care) the least confusing. Companies which only mimic their coding system and not following the logic behind (i.e. readiblity) fail big way (typical example is Baltic with their idiotic callsigns as 6NG and simmilar).
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The problem is that there are too many operators that are introducing alphanumeric call signs, when there is no need!
On a more jovial note, I have always thought the alpha-numeric coding of '69BJ' would raise an eye brow or two. I was very close to filing a flight plan for a short positioning trip with that call sign. Sadly the 'humour' would have been lost with the Arab controllers at the other end, plus they would be asking why I had resorted to using such an odd call sign!
On a more jovial note, I have always thought the alpha-numeric coding of '69BJ' would raise an eye brow or two. I was very close to filing a flight plan for a short positioning trip with that call sign. Sadly the 'humour' would have been lost with the Arab controllers at the other end, plus they would be asking why I had resorted to using such an odd call sign!
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Think that all the callsigns like Lufthansa or Aer Lingus are the best, think that using numbers and letters is by far the best way and eliminates confusion on the RTF. Transcontinental callsigns like DAL138/COA38 etc also have deeper meanings involving security measures for some of the countries they cross so aren't easily changed. I know as, 10 years down the line, I'm still filing against the BAW departures at night going eastwards every time they screw up. Which is about every other night shift. Or the Jet Airways into Brussels every morning. At least we no longer have to deal with SWR800/810/820/830/840/860/880/890 every morning anymore, or the subsequent return flights that all added a "1" on the end and used to hit S18 about 8am.
Don't like the RYR ones, but the rest are certainly needed.
Don't like the RYR ones, but the rest are certainly needed.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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I find that both numerical and alpha/numerical can work. But I would prefer if they could limit the callsigns to three digits.
We actually discussed it at work this morning when SAS7731 departed ekch for gcts. I'm not arguing that SAS should just go for SAS1, SAS2, SAS3 etc. but I highly doubt that they have 7731 routes. Surely a three digit callsign could've been found.
One last thing. If you do choose to go down the alpha/numerical path then please refrain from contructing callsigns that end with the letters L or H. One day someone is going to confuse that with the wake turbulence categori and that is just a ridiculous reason for busting your minima and/or creating an incident...
We actually discussed it at work this morning when SAS7731 departed ekch for gcts. I'm not arguing that SAS should just go for SAS1, SAS2, SAS3 etc. but I highly doubt that they have 7731 routes. Surely a three digit callsign could've been found.
One last thing. If you do choose to go down the alpha/numerical path then please refrain from contructing callsigns that end with the letters L or H. One day someone is going to confuse that with the wake turbulence categori and that is just a ridiculous reason for busting your minima and/or creating an incident...
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I find the greatest confusion arises when the middle digits are different, but the last one is the same.
I have never confused myself flying as XXX5125 with XXX5124 or XXX5126, however when XXX5215 calls the area sector and subsequent approach controller a few minutes after we do all hell breaks loose. I have gone as low as saying "fifty one twenty five" to avoid being confused with the other guy.
280, 380, 880 all depart at the same time too ... very clever, not.
S.
I have never confused myself flying as XXX5125 with XXX5124 or XXX5126, however when XXX5215 calls the area sector and subsequent approach controller a few minutes after we do all hell breaks loose. I have gone as low as saying "fifty one twenty five" to avoid being confused with the other guy.
280, 380, 880 all depart at the same time too ... very clever, not.
S.
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Avoiding callsign confusion
The problem with numerical-only callsigns is that it is difficult to find sets of callsigns that don't create confusion somewhere on the route. Carriers try to reduce this manually, but with limited success. They also tend to use flight numbers as flight IDs (so flight BA123 becomes Speedbird wun too three).
Being able to have letters as well as numbers greatly increases the range of available callsigns, and hence makes the problem that more solvable.
Being able to have letters as well as numbers greatly increases the range of available callsigns, and hence makes the problem that more solvable.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Anyone else noticed that Ryanair have recently implemented a lot of these 1 or 2 numbers, 2 letter callsigns for their flightplans, and most have no pattern.
For example flew EDI-AGP RYR 5BC, came back as 6UJ
Maybe someone in ops reads this forum!
For example flew EDI-AGP RYR 5BC, came back as 6UJ
Maybe someone in ops reads this forum!
Last edited by RYR738_driver; 9th Apr 2010 at 16:03.
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RYR738 driver
My understanding, being from Ops, but not FR Ops, is the logic behind Alpha-Numeric callsigns is, there must be no logic applied.
Alpha-Numeric call-signs must be as near to random as possible to avoid any call-sign confliction. Any attempt to code them, ie, by City pair, if adopted by a competitor on the same route may lead to call-sign confliction.
The RYR prefix allows accurate billing by all concerned, the remaining 4 availble letters and numbers can be coded in house for the beancounters to understand in the form of a list.
Bored
Alpha-Numeric call-signs must be as near to random as possible to avoid any call-sign confliction. Any attempt to code them, ie, by City pair, if adopted by a competitor on the same route may lead to call-sign confliction.
The RYR prefix allows accurate billing by all concerned, the remaining 4 availble letters and numbers can be coded in house for the beancounters to understand in the form of a list.
Bored
