Scottish Airports EFPS
Beady Eye
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BD
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Beady Eye
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Fuzzy 6988 What you're describing isn't facilitated by EFPS (nor the ACC EFD) but these electronic tools are a keystone building block to that sort of data sharing and NATS are planning to introduce it (although some years away). However what service you get will depend on whether independent (non NATS & MOD) service providers are willing to invest in the infrastructure.
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EFPS is still poor in approach. Works a treat in the tower as it cuts down the phone calls. I still need pen and paper in approach as the system is too cumbersome for free callers. It hasn't really gained us any capacity, but was just an excuse to cull ATSA's.
I went on a visit to the area centre a while ago and was listening to the guys moan about EFD. However EFD is a far superior and advanced system than EFPS, it even has the ability to write freehand. I guess the airports got the sh**ty end of the stick again.
I went on a visit to the area centre a while ago and was listening to the guys moan about EFD. However EFD is a far superior and advanced system than EFPS, it even has the ability to write freehand. I guess the airports got the sh**ty end of the stick again.
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As I've said elsewhere, the paper strip never needed an upgrade. It always did what you needed it to do. Same can't be said about EFPS. It makes what used to be easy things difficult.
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But paper means that the computer systems and tools never know what you're doing and are unable to provide any support, automation etc. You need to weld man and machine together somehow.
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I'm fairly sure they key point of air traffic control is NOT to weld man and machine together.
Personally, I think the EFPS that went into Scottish was woeful. If you're going to 'go electronic' why on earth try to replicate what paper does better? Either make a new system with as much added wizardry as possible that actually does new useful better things, or do nothing. Spending millions creating an electronic version of paper with most of it's drawbacks and none of it's benefits seems crazy.
Personally, I think the EFPS that went into Scottish was woeful. If you're going to 'go electronic' why on earth try to replicate what paper does better? Either make a new system with as much added wizardry as possible that actually does new useful better things, or do nothing. Spending millions creating an electronic version of paper with most of it's drawbacks and none of it's benefits seems crazy.
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"weld man and machine together somehow"
Maybe so, but EFPS is NOT its finest hour. If I can do things better with a paper strip and a pen there is NO benefit to me as an ATCO from having an electronic system. Yes it has got rid of some phone calls but not nearly as many as was expected. At my regional airport there has been no capacity increase from having it in Approach, it has no clue how to do and count circuits and doesn't do overflying or IFR training traffic simply. Perhaps I am a dinosaur but I'd have paper strips back in a heartbeat.
Maybe so, but EFPS is NOT its finest hour. If I can do things better with a paper strip and a pen there is NO benefit to me as an ATCO from having an electronic system. Yes it has got rid of some phone calls but not nearly as many as was expected. At my regional airport there has been no capacity increase from having it in Approach, it has no clue how to do and count circuits and doesn't do overflying or IFR training traffic simply. Perhaps I am a dinosaur but I'd have paper strips back in a heartbeat.
Last edited by Bring back Tridents; 18th Jan 2013 at 16:14.
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Ohoh....our company has worked on an electronic flight strip system for the better part of 15 years and we still havenīt implemented it in our biggest center and another approach unit. The units working with it havenīt noticed any measurable increase in capacity.
Iīve recently found an old memo adressed to the flight data assistants about ten years ago, stating that most of them would be jobless within the next three years. A lot of them found themselves new ones and guess what...we are seriously short of FDAs and started training new ones a couple of years ago.
Traffic levels have increased by about 70% over all these years, weīre still doing paper and doing it fine!
The epitome of excellence in ATC management....
Any busy units around there working stripless and willing to give tours?
Iīve recently found an old memo adressed to the flight data assistants about ten years ago, stating that most of them would be jobless within the next three years. A lot of them found themselves new ones and guess what...we are seriously short of FDAs and started training new ones a couple of years ago.
Traffic levels have increased by about 70% over all these years, weīre still doing paper and doing it fine!
The epitome of excellence in ATC management....
Any busy units around there working stripless and willing to give tours?
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In our cases, the development of EFPS had nothing to do with upgrading, or introducing an improvement or an advance in technology.
It was to get rid of staff and save money. If you believe there are any other driving forces, then you are delusional.
It was to get rid of staff and save money. If you believe there are any other driving forces, then you are delusional.
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Originally Posted by Bring back Tridents
"weld man and machine together somehow"
Maybe so, but EFPS is NOT its finest hour. If I can do things better with a paper strip and a pen there is NO benefit to me as an ATCO from having an electronic system. Yes it has got rid of some phone calls but not nearly as many as was expected. At my regional airport there has been no capacity increase from having it in Approach, it has no clue how to do and count circuits and doesn't do overflying or IFR training traffic simply. Perhaps I am a dinosaur but I'd have paper strips back in a heartbeat.
Maybe so, but EFPS is NOT its finest hour. If I can do things better with a paper strip and a pen there is NO benefit to me as an ATCO from having an electronic system. Yes it has got rid of some phone calls but not nearly as many as was expected. At my regional airport there has been no capacity increase from having it in Approach, it has no clue how to do and count circuits and doesn't do overflying or IFR training traffic simply. Perhaps I am a dinosaur but I'd have paper strips back in a heartbeat.
As I see it, most often capacity issues in approach and tower units are related to runway capacity or geographical issues, so I'm not surprised that moving to a paperless system hasn't brought about any capacity increase.
Still, by allowing a crosscheck between the controllers' inputs and the pilots' inputs (via enhanced mode S), and route adherence monitoring in the air and on the ground (coupled with an ASMGCS) those systems should bring a safety gain. And then there should be a benefit in sharing more data with adjacent sectors (see fuzzy6988 's post above).
Originally Posted by Not Long Now
Either make a new system with as much added wizardry as possible that actually does new useful better things, or do nothing.
It seems that most ANSPs go for electronic stripping for tower control and for a stripless system for terminal control. I'm still trying to get a confirmation of this (thread).
