EIDW Verify SID in FMS

[Ministry_Cork]

Hi All,
Listenieng to EIDW ATC recently i notice that some controllers have been asking departing a/c to verify the SID programmed in the FMS. Is this a new procedure for EIDW controllers and if so does anyone know what prompted it?

Thanks,
MC

[qnhhpa]

This is a new procedure in Dublin. It was introduced as a result of the occassional aircraft flying the incorrect SID on take-off despite, having been given and correctly read back the allocated SID.

So a second verification is now required that the aircraft has the cleared SID entered into their Flight Management System.

It's an irritating and time consuming procedure and its' effectiveness is questionable, as an aircraft has still managed to fly the wrong SID despite being cleared on and confirming the allocated SID twice.

Maybe there should be a third check, or fourth or.....

[Ministry_Cork]

Thanks qnhhpa i thought it was something simple like that. does me wonder though how the crew could make such a mistake and what happens when they do..... or maybe allow atc to program the fms???

[fireflybob]

I can understand why Dublin have resorted to doing this but, psychologically speaking, if the crew already have the mindset that the correct SID has already programmed into the FMS then even then they might not spot the error.

Unless ATC actually come on the flight deck and check the FMS themselves they can never be 100 % sure what's been loaded. Also, as has been previously stated, an a/c can still fly the wrong SID even with the correct one in the FMS for a myriad of reasons and remember that the FMC can fail!

[west atc]

Unless ATC actually come on the flight deck and check the FMS themselves they can never be 100 % sure what's been loaded.

An ATC on each flightdeck, now there's an idea! Prefer not with Ryanair though!

Don't know if the IAA could afford that however

[BOAC]

Its a variation of the long-standing MAN requirement to verify the cleared SID with tower.

[frogone]

I haven't got an FMC close to me here, but in it the PESIT 4A and the PELIG 4A when abbreviated look quite similar and little bit of finger trouble could and possibly has gone unknown until airborne!!

[Spitoon]

So there is a problem that some aircraft fly the wrong SID. This is called a safety occurrence. The ANSP (perhaps as well as other agencies) should investigate the occurrence, identify the cause of the hazard and take measures to mitigate the associated risks.

Is this procedure - which, for a variety of reasons including that mentioned by bob, is not particularly robust - really the best or only mitigation measure that can be found?

[rubadub]

the biggest problem in dub is that jets can imput nonjet sids
try a heavy off 10 turning right at the end of the rwy to concentrate your thoughts

[Callsign Kilo]

Believe it was a US registered 757 that attempted to take a shortened category A&B departure routing out of EIDW which sparked the delivery controller to now request verification of the SID in the FMS before handing you over to ground.

Could never quite understand why the Category A&B EIDW SIDs are available for selection within the Nav Database of a Category C aircraft?

I do have to laugh at the Dublin ATC guys and girls asking foreign crews to 'Verify the SID (spoken as you would when shortening the name Sidney as opposed to the letters S.I.D.) selected in the FMS.' It caused all sorts of problems with a TNT 737 crew when I was departing EIDW last week. Completely lost in translation.

[13370khz]

rubadub
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....or even a left turn. See thread AFR6457 01Feb09.