Spanish ATC "Work to rule"
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Spanish ATC "Work to rule"
Mods please don't shift this to "ATC issues" as this affects all pilots flying through spanish airspace.
Any of you who have been flying through Spanish airspace this last week may well have noticed that you are being denied short cuts either without explaination or (if challenged) by lame and unpalpable excuses.
It seems AENA have made moves towards selling off the ATC service and the controllers are now in fear of their cushy packages. Their chosen "action" is to deny all aircraft short cuts forcing us all to fly the flight planned route.
Now, I don't have any major issues with trying to take some control over your destiny but in this particular case do they really think AENA will change their decision as a result of this response? AENA aren't suffering (except as dwellers on this deteriorating planet of ours) and the only direct "victims" of this action are the Airlines who are having to pay more now for fuel. How is that going to help their cause?
Finally there is the cost to the environment and the waste of our ever depleting supply of oil............
If you're reading this you Numpties "Sort yourselves out!"
Any of you who have been flying through Spanish airspace this last week may well have noticed that you are being denied short cuts either without explaination or (if challenged) by lame and unpalpable excuses.
It seems AENA have made moves towards selling off the ATC service and the controllers are now in fear of their cushy packages. Their chosen "action" is to deny all aircraft short cuts forcing us all to fly the flight planned route.
Now, I don't have any major issues with trying to take some control over your destiny but in this particular case do they really think AENA will change their decision as a result of this response? AENA aren't suffering (except as dwellers on this deteriorating planet of ours) and the only direct "victims" of this action are the Airlines who are having to pay more now for fuel. How is that going to help their cause?
Finally there is the cost to the environment and the waste of our ever depleting supply of oil............
If you're reading this you Numpties "Sort yourselves out!"
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As a quick question why do you think you are entitled to a direct route? They are at the discretion of the controller and should not be counted on when you are flying around. Because the controller doesn't want to is the best excuse for not getting one. He/she doesn't have to provide directs, they are not part of the mandate of being a controller. We are there to make sure you get to your destination safely. End of. All they are doing is doing their jobs as laid down in their procedures, without all the extra stuff that you seem to think should be god given.
I don't think the action will work mind.
I don't think the action will work mind.
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....... and as a quick answer - "God there's always one eh?"
As a longer answer - where above did I imply that I or any of my colleagues believe they have a "God given right" to a short cut? I didn't. End of!
Because a controller doesn't want to is the best reason of all??? My God are you for real? So it doesn't depend at all on why he doesn't want to then? Like just because he's a frustrated failed pilot perhaps??? That'll be ok then would it?
The ONLY reason not to is safety! Jeeeeesus!
As a longer answer - where above did I imply that I or any of my colleagues believe they have a "God given right" to a short cut? I didn't. End of!
Because a controller doesn't want to is the best reason of all??? My God are you for real? So it doesn't depend at all on why he doesn't want to then? Like just because he's a frustrated failed pilot perhaps??? That'll be ok then would it?
The ONLY reason not to is safety! Jeeeeesus!
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In the same way that when my postman was recently on strike in the UK and I didn't notice that the level of service he was providing was any worse than his normal s**t level, I don't think Spanish ATC "acting up" will result in any degradation of service at all.
1985 They certainly arent using any discression at all and its got sweet fa to do with saftey.
Extremely annoying flying the full departure out of relativley quiet airports...pissing away fuel for no reason.
Extremely annoying flying the full departure out of relativley quiet airports...pissing away fuel for no reason.
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Having spent more time than usual in Spanish airspace last week, I must surely have seen the worst ATC service in the civilised world with the addition of unnecessary bloody mindedness. They are pathetic - I was even denied a climb to a more economical level because it wasn't in our flight plan. I should have pointed out that descending at more than 2500 fpm wasn't in our flight plan either, but we happily obliged them.
I never thought I'd say this, but I found myself looking forward to the earliest possible transfer to the French.
I never thought I'd say this, but I found myself looking forward to the earliest possible transfer to the French.
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Directs aren't going to save the planet and I never understand the glee some pilots show when they see the ETA drop by 2 minutes...on a 5 hour sector. IMHO there are much more important/useful things to twist knickers over...
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It wouldn't save the planet but the saving can be quite substantial.
My airline operates 1400 flights a day, a 2 minute saving on each one of them would save approximately 1400*2*40(40kg a minute on a 737)=112000kg of fuel.
It's worth trying!
I do not understand why we even have to ask for directs?
If it's available it should be offered especially if the capacity is there to coordinate it with other atc providers.
My airline operates 1400 flights a day, a 2 minute saving on each one of them would save approximately 1400*2*40(40kg a minute on a 737)=112000kg of fuel.
It's worth trying!
I do not understand why we even have to ask for directs?
If it's available it should be offered especially if the capacity is there to coordinate it with other atc providers.
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It wouldn't save the planet but the saving can be quite substantial.
My airline operates 1400 flights a day, a 2 minute saving on each one of them would save approximately 1400*2*40(40kg a minute on a 737)=112000kg of fuel.
It's worth trying!
I do not understand why we even have to ask for directs?
If it's available it should be offered especially if the capacity is there to coordinate it with other atc providers.
My airline operates 1400 flights a day, a 2 minute saving on each one of them would save approximately 1400*2*40(40kg a minute on a 737)=112000kg of fuel.
It's worth trying!
I do not understand why we even have to ask for directs?
If it's available it should be offered especially if the capacity is there to coordinate it with other atc providers.
He/she doesn't have to provide directs, they are not part of the mandate of being a controller.
Then we have all this (rightly in my opinion) about the environment and saving the planet's resources so shouldn't this feature in part of the remit? Wouldn't like the New Age luvvies to hear about this or the protesters that closed Stansted for half a day a while back!
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where above did I imply that I or any of my colleagues believe they have a "God given right" to a short cut?
you are being denied short cuts either without explaination or (if challenged) by lame and unpalpable excuses.
I'm not commenting either way on whether the Spanish controllers are correct in their actions.
I'm not used to any mentality other than being expeditious. Where I work it's automatic that you will be on the most direct course possible, considering the workload and other circumstances, so there's no need for pilots to request directs.
I do not understand why we even have to ask for directs?
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Any of you who have been flying through Spanish airspace this last week may well have noticed that you are being denied short cuts either without explaination or (if challenged) by lame and unpalpable excuses.
It seems AENA have made moves towards selling off the ATC service and the controllers are now in fear of their cushy packages. Their chosen "action" is to deny all aircraft short cuts forcing us all to fly the flight planned route.
It seems AENA have made moves towards selling off the ATC service and the controllers are now in fear of their cushy packages. Their chosen "action" is to deny all aircraft short cuts forcing us all to fly the flight planned route.
Why shouldn't people fight to preserve what they already have? If your employer was talking about reducing your terms and conditions wouldn't you fight them? Its not like they've gone on strike. Which would piss you off even more i suppose? I can see the logic behind it. By not giving directs they cause the airlines to fly the routes and burn the fuel that they should have already planned on. Its not hurting anybody. You and the airlines should not be banking on ATC to help you save fuel by banking on getting directs. The airlines will then put pressure on AENA to help them out and the controllers then get what they want.
Because a controller doesn't want to is the best reason of all??? My God are you for real? So it doesn't depend at all on why he doesn't want to then? Like just because he's a frustrated failed pilot perhaps??? That'll be ok then would it?
The ONLY reason not to is safety!
The ONLY reason not to is safety!
The point is once the controller has said no then stop sodding asking. If i can't do it first time the chances are that either i won't be able to do it all or i'll do it later without the need to be "promted" again. Knowing most of my collegues the more you ask the less chance you'll get.
I give directs, i like giving directs, i will give directs most of the time even when i know that if i'd kept it on the flight planned route my life would be easier. What i don't like is being badgered for them, i'll try my best but if i can't then i can't, usually i'll try to tell you why (which i don't have to) but sometimes i'll just say "negative". Except it and move on.
Sorry for the mild rant but i've just finished a night shift sending aircraft on 600 mile directs all over europe.
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Recent direct to ABBOT
This was a surprise direct from LON as we crossed the south UK coast in the Shanwick overhead.
After recovering myself from the floor, I asked "Howabout direct LUT"...
"Dont push it" was the reply....
Was this the 1st of the month special...
glf
After recovering myself from the floor, I asked "Howabout direct LUT"...
"Dont push it" was the reply....
Was this the 1st of the month special...
glf
