vertical separation at FL600
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: 30 West
Age: 65
Posts: 926
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Absolutely not Dear Chap 
He tells another story about a Vulcan and a B-52 but it goes on for a while !
Bless, he got his pension, I said, he got his pension this November
He tells another story about a Vulcan and a B-52 but it goes on for a while !
Bless, he got his pension, I said, he got his pension this November
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Madrid FIR
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seem to remember from brake release to 1,000ft the Comet 4 was quicker than the P1B/Lightning. What's this got to do with separation from Blackbirds???
Last edited by radarman; 11th Dec 2009 at 16:42. Reason: Not enough zeros in 1,000.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: -
Posts: 508
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Once had a westbound U2 pitch up at the boundary, at F600, looking for a clearance to cross the pond. Asked the U2 driver if he was able 610, to which the answer was no problem. Then had to get Gander to restrict a Concorde coming back east to not above 570, as opposed to the usual 450-600 block. (4000' vertical separation was standard for SSTs and all others). Concorde hit 30W and asked how long the restriction applied; 'til 008W I told him. His reply; "What's the traffic?". Needless to say "Opp-dir U2 F610 and above" left him somewhat lost for words. Didn't happen very often needless to say.
Don't know who had the harder time of it on that occasion- the Concorde engineer who had to recalculate everything on the basis of a restricted cruise climb profile, or the U2 driver who proceeded to tell me his INS had gone tilt and he was navigating using a hand-held GPS. I was tempted to reply to that info with "follow the big yellow thing, keep black above, blue below, and when the blue turns to green you're practically home," but sadly chickened out...
Don't know who had the harder time of it on that occasion- the Concorde engineer who had to recalculate everything on the basis of a restricted cruise climb profile, or the U2 driver who proceeded to tell me his INS had gone tilt and he was navigating using a hand-held GPS. I was tempted to reply to that info with "follow the big yellow thing, keep black above, blue below, and when the blue turns to green you're practically home," but sadly chickened out...
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Dark side of the moon
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Once asked a U2 to confirm he was operating above FL640 as he was conflicting with a Manchester-Toronto Concorde, (remember those ones?) to which he replied "we are way above that" Merry Christmas Rab!
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Long White Cloud
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
javelin
but was it as fast on the climb out as an English Electric Lightning P1B?
but was it as fast on the climb out as an English Electric Lightning P1B?
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: ireland
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
fpm
worked a concorde in the SOTA west of LND doing an air test after the "accident". He/she/it climbed to FL690 from approx FL350 at 9000fpm (according to lunatic flying/driving it) My mode C readout was like looking at the dials on a one arm bandit.
PS. glf
concorde was given cruise descent clearance to fl390 on SM and SN on the London/Shannon border. Everybody had to moved clear or descended to 370. Wouldn't fancy doing it now.
Thorisgod
PS. glf
concorde was given cruise descent clearance to fl390 on SM and SN on the London/Shannon border. Everybody had to moved clear or descended to 370. Wouldn't fancy doing it now.
Thorisgod
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA
Age: 66
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
toaplz: As far as I know, ops above FL600 are now in uncontrolled airspace. Last ops I worked in vicinity of FL600 was NASA U2s out of KBGR flying north to do ozone testing over the north pole. Pilot would request clearance to FL600. Once reaching the altitude, would cancel IFR and continue climb.
Used to work Concordes almost daily between EGLL/LFPG & KJFK/KIAD. Eastbound out of JFK would get climb to 550B590 & westbound would be in the block between 560B600. Although the tracks crossed and there would be 3000 feet of requested & assigned altitude overlap, the aircraft never were a factor in our airspace. The KJFK departures could barely make their restriction to cross 67W at or above FL430 and the westbound were usually FL580 or 590 and still slowly climbing. Used to be "fun" watching the new guys squirm a little before explaining the situation.
Never worked the SR71 but once saw one take off from ??Mildenhall?? I think. Was coming back from Denmark and stopped for fuel. (They were @ Mildenhall, right?) I'm not ever easily impressed, but I was that day. The good old days!!!
Used to work Concordes almost daily between EGLL/LFPG & KJFK/KIAD. Eastbound out of JFK would get climb to 550B590 & westbound would be in the block between 560B600. Although the tracks crossed and there would be 3000 feet of requested & assigned altitude overlap, the aircraft never were a factor in our airspace. The KJFK departures could barely make their restriction to cross 67W at or above FL430 and the westbound were usually FL580 or 590 and still slowly climbing. Used to be "fun" watching the new guys squirm a little before explaining the situation.
Never worked the SR71 but once saw one take off from ??Mildenhall?? I think. Was coming back from Denmark and stopped for fuel. (They were @ Mildenhall, right?) I'm not ever easily impressed, but I was that day. The good old days!!!
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: That France
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't remember the callsign but I do remember the day itself.
I was a snot-nosed ATCA who had heard a rumour that something special was happening in D&D. I scrounged a break - which was s-o-o-o-o difficult in those days
- and wandered over there from the civil ops room. I polished my shoes on the back of my trouser legs, attempted to force my hair into some sort of submission, and asked the nice man in uniform if I could stand in the corner for a while and watch. Yes, said the nice man in uniform, come in quick.
Five minutes later some bloke in uniform arrived with a load of flunkies. I remember thinking Oh ****, I thought, I know him, he's my Bosses Bosses Boss. In fact, after 35 years, maybe my memory is not what it used to be, but I am sure it was Sir Ivor B himself.
Anyway, whoever he was, he spotted me right away - I mean, hair down to floor level and Dress Undress, I couldn't pass myself off as actually belonging in there, could I?. After a short interrogation, he allowed me to stay, but warned me of dire (Dyer??) consequences should I ever reveal what I saw in that room.
So, with deep regret, I now have to hunt you all down and carry out Sir Ivors threats. Please don't run away too quickly, I've got a dickey knee and couldn't give chase.
I was a snot-nosed ATCA who had heard a rumour that something special was happening in D&D. I scrounged a break - which was s-o-o-o-o difficult in those days
- and wandered over there from the civil ops room. I polished my shoes on the back of my trouser legs, attempted to force my hair into some sort of submission, and asked the nice man in uniform if I could stand in the corner for a while and watch. Yes, said the nice man in uniform, come in quick.Five minutes later some bloke in uniform arrived with a load of flunkies. I remember thinking Oh ****, I thought, I know him, he's my Bosses Bosses Boss. In fact, after 35 years, maybe my memory is not what it used to be, but I am sure it was Sir Ivor B himself.
Anyway, whoever he was, he spotted me right away - I mean, hair down to floor level and Dress Undress, I couldn't pass myself off as actually belonging in there, could I?. After a short interrogation, he allowed me to stay, but warned me of dire (Dyer??) consequences should I ever reveal what I saw in that room.
So, with deep regret, I now have to hunt you all down and carry out Sir Ivors threats. Please don't run away too quickly, I've got a dickey knee and couldn't give chase.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Donnez-moi un break
<<He/she/it climbed to FL690 from approx FL350 at 9000fpm (according to lunatic flying/driving it)>>
There is no way a Concorde could achieve a zoom climb from F350 to F690 at 9000fpm for many reasons - this did not happen. Concorde did not zoom climb because minimum drag speed was close to Vmo/Mmo and could not lose speed and continue climbing. Hence the block clearances (F450-600 west and F450 or F500-F600 east on NAT: out of interest a F570 restriction would have made little/no difference to the figures).
It possibly could have aerodynamically reached F690, but only at a struggle after a long, long cruise-climb and only in the low latitudes where stratospheric temperatures were below ISA (weight made little difference). But the aircraft was limited to F600 because air conditioning and equipment cooling could not cope above that.
"He/she/it" & "lunatic" - nice comments, but better that than a BS-er.
There is no way a Concorde could achieve a zoom climb from F350 to F690 at 9000fpm for many reasons - this did not happen. Concorde did not zoom climb because minimum drag speed was close to Vmo/Mmo and could not lose speed and continue climbing. Hence the block clearances (F450-600 west and F450 or F500-F600 east on NAT: out of interest a F570 restriction would have made little/no difference to the figures).
It possibly could have aerodynamically reached F690, but only at a struggle after a long, long cruise-climb and only in the low latitudes where stratospheric temperatures were below ISA (weight made little difference). But the aircraft was limited to F600 because air conditioning and equipment cooling could not cope above that.
"He/she/it" & "lunatic" - nice comments, but better that than a BS-er.
