Secret flight plans
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Secret flight plans
An air traffic controller is now imprisoned in Cambodia for allegedly revealing the details of exiled Thai ex prime minister Thaksin Shiniwatra's private flight to Cambodia from Dubai recently.
Can I appeal to anyone on this site with access to the flight plan to publish it on line.
As a private pilot of 30 years with lots of long distance flying I have to say I have never had a problem with flight plans being deemed private or secret.
Sivarak Chutipong, an employee of Cambodia Air Traffic Service, a Thai company, was arrested on charges of supplying state secrets - details of ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra's flight schedule - to the Thai embassy when Thaksin visited Phnom Penh earlier this month.
Mr Sivarak is being detained at Prey Sar prison in Phnom Penh on spying charges.
Prison conditions in Cambodia are not good and I appeal for any help or assistance or suggestions to get him released.It would also help if we can publish any general flights plans out of Dubai or in to Phnom Penh to prove these are not secret.
It would help to have a picture of Thaksins aircraft published so that it can not be deemed a state secret.
Can I appeal to mods to keep this post in rumours and news?
More here
Family visits accused spy in Cambodia
Can I appeal to anyone on this site with access to the flight plan to publish it on line.
As a private pilot of 30 years with lots of long distance flying I have to say I have never had a problem with flight plans being deemed private or secret.
Sivarak Chutipong, an employee of Cambodia Air Traffic Service, a Thai company, was arrested on charges of supplying state secrets - details of ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra's flight schedule - to the Thai embassy when Thaksin visited Phnom Penh earlier this month.
Mr Sivarak is being detained at Prey Sar prison in Phnom Penh on spying charges.
Prison conditions in Cambodia are not good and I appeal for any help or assistance or suggestions to get him released.It would also help if we can publish any general flights plans out of Dubai or in to Phnom Penh to prove these are not secret.
It would help to have a picture of Thaksins aircraft published so that it can not be deemed a state secret.
Can I appeal to mods to keep this post in rumours and news?
More here
Family visits accused spy in Cambodia
Last edited by Phil Space; 27th Nov 2009 at 14:38.
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A lot depends on local laws, rules and regs. There are aircraft on "secret" flight plans within the UK and, no doubt, countless other countries.
If a politician/ head of state decreed that details of a certain flight should be "restricted" and details only known to those involved then what right did the controller have to reveal them? Why should anyone on here publish the details? It might do more harm than good for the unfortunate, but thoughtless, controller.
If a politician/ head of state decreed that details of a certain flight should be "restricted" and details only known to those involved then what right did the controller have to reveal them? Why should anyone on here publish the details? It might do more harm than good for the unfortunate, but thoughtless, controller.
With my limited knowledge of things South-East-Asian, I would suggest that any attempt to demonstrate to those in authority that the arrest charge used was invalid because of a perceived mistake (ie: shaming them) would be very counterproductive.
"Face", pride, is important. A social more as entrenched in Asia as, say, forming a queue is in England. (Assuming you still do that. Darned polite. And correct.)
It would very likely make things worse, not better, for the imprisoned man.
Quiet legal support behind the scenes, and ensuring the man is supported in prison (food, gifts etc, as permitted, and legal aid) is the way I'd want to go.
[edit] I would imagine, based on the wording of the OP, that any defense is likely to rely on the controller not knowing that the release of the document was against policy, (or that there was no policy - unlikely) nor that the document was indeed a secret. The success (or not) of that would probably depend very much on the conditions one is employed under. (Which as an employee he had probably seen; maybe even signed.)
If there is a policy of "no release of documents/information" present, (and I bet there is; my workplace has something similar), no amount of public release of same documents to demonstrate they aren't exactly secret will make much difference. I wouldn't think so, anyway.
"Face", pride, is important. A social more as entrenched in Asia as, say, forming a queue is in England. (Assuming you still do that. Darned polite. And correct.)
It would very likely make things worse, not better, for the imprisoned man.
Quiet legal support behind the scenes, and ensuring the man is supported in prison (food, gifts etc, as permitted, and legal aid) is the way I'd want to go.
[edit] I would imagine, based on the wording of the OP, that any defense is likely to rely on the controller not knowing that the release of the document was against policy, (or that there was no policy - unlikely) nor that the document was indeed a secret. The success (or not) of that would probably depend very much on the conditions one is employed under. (Which as an employee he had probably seen; maybe even signed.)
If there is a policy of "no release of documents/information" present, (and I bet there is; my workplace has something similar), no amount of public release of same documents to demonstrate they aren't exactly secret will make much difference. I wouldn't think so, anyway.
Last edited by Tarq57; 28th Nov 2009 at 06:14.
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PhilSpace
Where I feel for the chap who is now behind bars; there is surely more to this than meets the eye. I would wager that it has little to do with whether a flight plan is a secret document or not, and more to do with the Thai's wanting to get their hands on Shinawatra and the poor relationship between Cambodia and Thailand at present. Someone in his position would have to be extemely naive- at best, not to understand the potential consequences of revealing flight plan details of Thaksin Shinawatra's arrival in Cambodia to the Thai authorities.
The Guardian has a piece on the issues here.
Thaksin Shinawatra stokes tensions by taking job with Cambodian government | World news | guardian.co.uk
As an aside, I think I am correct in saying that all UK controllers and ATC people have to sign the Offical Secrets act, or at least they used to.
Where I feel for the chap who is now behind bars; there is surely more to this than meets the eye. I would wager that it has little to do with whether a flight plan is a secret document or not, and more to do with the Thai's wanting to get their hands on Shinawatra and the poor relationship between Cambodia and Thailand at present. Someone in his position would have to be extemely naive- at best, not to understand the potential consequences of revealing flight plan details of Thaksin Shinawatra's arrival in Cambodia to the Thai authorities.
The Guardian has a piece on the issues here.
Thaksin Shinawatra stokes tensions by taking job with Cambodian government | World news | guardian.co.uk
As an aside, I think I am correct in saying that all UK controllers and ATC people have to sign the Offical Secrets act, or at least they used to.
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no sig... Unless it's a recent requirement, I don't think so. I had to sign up for the Act l-o-n-g ago when I was a paltry Civil Service clerk but I don't recall doing so when I entered ATC. However, I encountered a number of local ATCI instructions about flights which should not be discussed..
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I don't recall doing so when I entered ATC.
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Deliberate or malicious dissemination of sensitive information that may harm the interests of any Government or Government representatives could be deemed as a state offense. Directives are usually issued at units to reflect that and especially if you are working directly for or contracted directly to a Government institution.
This scenario doesn't surprise me in the least and the response likewise. Not ideal but not unrealistic.
This scenario doesn't surprise me in the least and the response likewise. Not ideal but not unrealistic.
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The Official Secrets act covers everybody. What you sign is confirmation it has been pointed out too you. As far as I know everybody in NATS signs as part of the joining process.
