Calling All Piots Who Fly Outside Of Controlled Airspace

[Midland Transport]

OUTCAS

My advice would be to suggest that if FISO and LARS and ATC units were really connected rather than just by having a telephone call the whole situation would be better. In this day and age of Global Intergrated Communications any non flyer would be amazed that air safety is often based on people just making a telephone call.
I use Farnborough anf Brize alot and get excellent service but feel sometimes that asking for a co-ordinated approach in to say Blackbush from Farnborough is too much of an ask. They have to go off line to make a phone call. What I then have to do having negotiated round 2 MATZ is an overhead join at 250 IAS slwing to 160 in the circuit which for passengers is a fairground ride. I also use FISO when I get dumped out of the airways a long way from my destination which is often the case in the South East. A FISO service at 300knts is helpful but in IMC dangerous then I have to try and get de-conflict from someone.
A more published procedure would be very helpful for pilots who are tryning to do the right thing. I think this would be a constructive approach to your new emplyees. They will believe that IFR and airways have little to do with FISO as they only think of the large airports and published Instrument Arrival and Approach.

[chevvron]

Midland; are you saying you do 300kt in class G airspace?

[fisbangwollop]

Hell if the wx is crap and I want the current ATIS for HIAL airports I give Scottish Info a call from way above 5000ft,

Yes and there is one nice Globespan crew that call me at Scottish every week whilst enrute from Palma, usually calls whilst over London at FL390 and asks for the Edinburgh weather....needless to say he gets it with a smile

Although Scottish info does seem to be crewed by some right characters (said in the nicest possible way)

Thanks Mad Jock for your kind comments from one of those characters

[Midland Transport]

OUTCAS

Prob 270 IAS but 300 + over the ground when you leave the airway in to Class G depending on what level you leaeve the airway but often you are dumped out high.

[chevvron]

Check your PMs.

[quinland]

Amatflyer,

Is this an internal vacancy then, there's nothing on their web site?

[mad_jock]

I wouldn't change the characters for anything.

As an Instructor the characters at Scottish info have made the student learning curve of pressing the tit one of enjoyment instead of terror.

You guys probably don't realise the tone of your voice and your patience does way more to encouraging students to use the service available than any number of briefs on airmanship and RT.

I am sure some prat who has never been near a PPL student would have issue with "Roger G-xx take a deep breath you nearly got it that time and now say again"

As an instructor I say crack on it aids flight safety.

And PS whats wrong with 300knts above FL100 in class G.

[babotika]

I got the opportunity to do some joyriding around the alps a few years ago, VFR. I remember we called Munich and Vienna Info for FIS and a RIS, but one where we didn't have to practically sign a contract with the ground unit and could manoeuvre as we wished while still being provided with radar based traffic information. Vienna even co-ordinated our transit through Innsbruck controlled airspace.

I've had a very similar service from Montreal, Toronto, Moncton, Boston, Albuquerque ACCs but this time we were sharing the frequency with airways traffic.

I really can't get my head around why London and Scottish info aren't equipped to provide LARS centrally rather than have to bounce between various approach units and beg for a traffic/deconfliction service. I know the controllers at said units are more than willing to oblige workload permitting, and they do an outstanding job, but a little more organisation wouldn't go amiss.

Just my thoughts anyway... I spend most of my time in the upper atmosphere now but this still bothers me.

[fisbangwollop]

As an Instructor the characters at Scottish info have made the student learning curve of pressing the tit one of enjoyment instead of terror.

Hey Mad Jock your bottle of Glenmorangie is in the post....thanks

[12Watt Tim]

babotika

Have you thought of the advantages of the UK system? Like the fact that all the radar traffic in the area is working the same controller? How about the problems of operating the system you suggest? Have you ever heard how busy Farnborough gets? London would end up with so many sectors you'd end up changing frequency just as often! It might not be a perfect system, but it has developed for a reason (well, apart from the new ATSOCAS system).

[Glamdring]

Like the fact that all the radar traffic in the area is working the same controller?

lol. I guess you've never been flying off the east coast of Scotland, south of Aberdeen where traffic within 10 miles of each other can be working 4 different controllers, madness!

[fisbangwollop]

south of Aberdeen where traffic within 10 miles of each other can be working 4 different controllers, madness!

Or if your flying a Typhoon talking to no one at all!!!

[12Watt Tim]

Only to climb up or descend. However in my experience in other regions of the UK there is a smooth handover (usually 'contact' rather than 'free call' too) at appropriate points between radar units. The point I made (albeit I was not clear) is that approach radar is talking to the inbound and local traffic as well as me as transit traffic; area radar would not be. The former is not always relevant, but there are plenty of LARS units which don't have their own controlled airspace, including most of the military ones, and arrivals to most others from outside controlled airspace. I would not like to pass through parts of East Anglia without talking to the local mil controllers, having heard how many they are talking to and what that traffic is doing!

By the way in some countries all area radar, even in controlled airspace, is by local controllers. It seems odd to hear a taxi clearance given when you are in the airways!