Why do Heathrow Director expect us to announce aircraft type on first call?
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 447
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From: UAE
With regards to the Paris computer not having all the aircraft types, surely it's the airline's operations people that sends out the initial flightplan to all the enroute adressees, and that should be the correct information. And if the company changes the operating equipment, it is up to them to send the appropriate change message.
Is this another case of catering for the lowest common denominator and not giving a swift kick up the ar$e to those who don't do the right thing?
In my brief 12 years in ATC, I can count on one hand the number of times that the operating equipment have changed and we have not been notified before the aircraft moves. Even then, the crew have a copy of the submitted flightplan and have always cross-checked and alerted us if there has been a change.
As for descending on the glidepath, don't get me started on that lowest common denominator, just-in-case crap.
Cheers,
NFR.
Is this another case of catering for the lowest common denominator and not giving a swift kick up the ar$e to those who don't do the right thing?
In my brief 12 years in ATC, I can count on one hand the number of times that the operating equipment have changed and we have not been notified before the aircraft moves. Even then, the crew have a copy of the submitted flightplan and have always cross-checked and alerted us if there has been a change.
As for descending on the glidepath, don't get me started on that lowest common denominator, just-in-case crap.
Cheers,
NFR.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
From: west
Most airports seem to require type as standard part of initial call for reasons previously stated so why does AMS specifically say at end of ATIS "Call approach with callsign only" (still doesn't stop some giving the full nine yards though!)
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 141
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From: a few track miles south of BEKOL
super
has anyone noticed that sq uses '123 super' for its 380s in certain airports? is that a show off thing or do we need to know cause that whale really produces more wake than a normal 'heavy?'
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 3
From: Arizona USA
has anyone noticed that sq uses '123 super' for its 380s in certain airports? is that a show off thing or do we need to know cause that whale really produces more wake than a normal 'heavy?'
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,086
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From: Greystation
NFR:
When London receives the flight message from the Paris computer to activate the flight in our airspace, the message contains aircraft type. Due to Paris computer not having all the types in that London computer has throws up match discrepancies so we have to confirm the type as we do not have the filed flight plan on sector. The popular ones are A340-600 (Paris tends to send this as a A340-200) and B777-300ER, we differentiate between the long range versions and the normal ones, Paris doesn't. Its an annoyance using up yet more valuable RTF.
With regards to the Paris computer not having all the aircraft types, surely it's the airline's operations people that sends out the initial flightplan to all the enroute adressees, and that should be the correct information.
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
From: UK
has anyone noticed that sq uses '123 super' for its 380s in certain airports? is that a show off thing or do we need to know cause that whale really produces more wake than a normal 'heavy?'
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
From: YYZ via the UK
has anyone noticed that sq uses '123 super' for its 380s in certain airports
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: Canada
The reason that they ask for type is quite simple really. It's just their polite way of making sure that we know what type it is in fact that we are driving on to their precious tarmac on that particular day. Avoids unpleasantness on the ground... and you really wouldn't wish to disturb the crash crews, would you.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,837
Likes: 215
From: SA
You'd be surprised at how many times the aircraft type on the flight plan is incorrect!
What reporting occurs? I guess nothing, world's best practice, don't think so.
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
From: EHAA
Most airports seem to require type as standard part of initial call for reasons previously stated so why does AMS specifically say at end of ATIS "Call approach with callsign only" (still doesn't stop some giving the full nine yards though!)
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18
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From: A long way from Tipperary
Well said, Scuzi. The originator is obviously a total cretin who deserves little response...
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 206
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From: Sunny Scotland
Thisresponse is typical of the kind of tea-slurper who is not responsible for flying hundreds of tons of metal through the air.
he actually prefers coffee
ps only jokin btw
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,295
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From: Hants
To see if any stowaways have dropped out of the undercarriage bay on landing...
Engines are tested by having frozen chickens fired at them at high speed, but are not tested agains ingesting frozen illegal immigrants. You can't be too careful
Engines are tested by having frozen chickens fired at them at high speed, but are not tested agains ingesting frozen illegal immigrants. You can't be too careful
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 321
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From: YYZ via the UK
Why do they need to do a runway inspection ?
They check the runway now after both departure and arrival.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,543
Likes: 10
From: Samsonite Avenue
Come on guys... it makes sense really.
Heathrow Director has little room for error. ATC in Europe might be quick to spot an incorrect type when taxying out when compared to the FPL. However at some of the more 'colourful' airfields in the less developed world, many ATCOs won't care if the FPL says B752 and a B763 is what he/she is seeing of the tower.
In some parts of the world, ATCOs have a very poor knowledge of different aircraft types and associated aircraft performance when compared to Europe and especially the UK.
Why should the Heathrow Director trust the ATCO on 'Bongo Bongo' tower to ensure that the FPL has been correctly filed with the correct aircraft type prior to departure?
Heathrow Director has little room for error. ATC in Europe might be quick to spot an incorrect type when taxying out when compared to the FPL. However at some of the more 'colourful' airfields in the less developed world, many ATCOs won't care if the FPL says B752 and a B763 is what he/she is seeing of the tower.
In some parts of the world, ATCOs have a very poor knowledge of different aircraft types and associated aircraft performance when compared to Europe and especially the UK.
Why should the Heathrow Director trust the ATCO on 'Bongo Bongo' tower to ensure that the FPL has been correctly filed with the correct aircraft type prior to departure?
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,451
Likes: 6
From: schermoney and left front seat
As reasonable as it sounds, one has to wonder why this very seldom required outside the UK and apparently everywhere within th UK...is this a legal problem, e.g. your necks on the block, but, say, a germans atcos neck NOT on any sort of block if operator did not file correctly?
Other q: I do fly under reg, my current airplane is a Cessna Citation Sovereign or C680. What would you consider the best/most correct way to tell you the type?
A) Just 'citation' - they could be Light or Medium
b) Citation Sovereign
or
c) C680
?
For the time being I say C680 - the icao type identifier....
Other q: I do fly under reg, my current airplane is a Cessna Citation Sovereign or C680. What would you consider the best/most correct way to tell you the type?
A) Just 'citation' - they could be Light or Medium
b) Citation Sovereign
or
c) C680
?
For the time being I say C680 - the icao type identifier....