ATCO suspended after New York Mid Air
ATCO suspended after New York Mid Air
Following the sightseeing helicopter/PA32 collision over the Hudson, the Teterboro controller (who was working the PA32 up until 60 seconds before collision) has been suspended. Desk side phone samples show he was involved in a conversation with an airport contractor about a dead cat removed from a taxiway which degenerated into "banter".
The unit supervisor has also been suspended because he was out of the building at the time of the incident.
Controller Bantering on Phone Before Crash - ABC News
NTSB officials initially said
"the controller failed to warn the plane's pilot of the potential for a collision with several aircraft in its path, including the helicopter"
despite the helicopter not appearing on radar until after the PA32 left the frequency. NATCA seem to have forced a correction but that has cost them a place on the investigation.
NTSB changes key point in Hudson collision report - Yahoo! News
I'm surprised the details of the phone call have been leaked to the media and also that the NTSB seem to want to blame the ATCO involved at such an early stage.
The unit supervisor has also been suspended because he was out of the building at the time of the incident.
Controller Bantering on Phone Before Crash - ABC News
NTSB officials initially said
"the controller failed to warn the plane's pilot of the potential for a collision with several aircraft in its path, including the helicopter"
despite the helicopter not appearing on radar until after the PA32 left the frequency. NATCA seem to have forced a correction but that has cost them a place on the investigation.
NTSB changes key point in Hudson collision report - Yahoo! News
I'm surprised the details of the phone call have been leaked to the media and also that the NTSB seem to want to blame the ATCO involved at such an early stage.
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Don't be suprised by anything the press and media say.
Additionally, don't forget that this occured in the USA, "land of the free" and also where the FAA have a bit of record of making public statements to the effect of "guilty until proven innocent".
Additionally, don't forget that this occured in the USA, "land of the free" and also where the FAA have a bit of record of making public statements to the effect of "guilty until proven innocent".
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My concern here is the fact that there wasn't a supervisor present and also the distraction of a phone call which took away the concentration of the controller leading to the fatalities.
Which leads me onto my next question. Its all well and good doing comparison of FAA (US) vs CAA (UK) as to who comes out best but I see this issue centering around human error, or a distraction in this instance and this could happen here or over the pond, regardless of any superior views on the subject!
What other distractions take place within a tower or radar environment?
For instance, are controllers allowed to take their mobile phones into the working environment whilst in the shift room (tower or radar environment)? If not, is there a procedure for signing them in and out?
What does a controller do whilst in a quiet period when in the shift room, do they read papers, do they read personal books, do they eat food and drink? I ask because I don't know the answer in my honesty.
What other distractions can take place? Are there guidelines and training against these scenarios and what form of documentation do they exist in?
Which leads me onto my next question. Its all well and good doing comparison of FAA (US) vs CAA (UK) as to who comes out best but I see this issue centering around human error, or a distraction in this instance and this could happen here or over the pond, regardless of any superior views on the subject!
What other distractions take place within a tower or radar environment?
For instance, are controllers allowed to take their mobile phones into the working environment whilst in the shift room (tower or radar environment)? If not, is there a procedure for signing them in and out?
What does a controller do whilst in a quiet period when in the shift room, do they read papers, do they read personal books, do they eat food and drink? I ask because I don't know the answer in my honesty.
What other distractions can take place? Are there guidelines and training against these scenarios and what form of documentation do they exist in?
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TOPDROP
The average Journo would not have the brains to know how to register with a site like this, let alone post something with depth.
What is more worrying though is that rather than posting something with substance you posted "journo alert".
Seriously though, if anybody does have some sensible comments rather than extreme paranoia as it a very serious issue. If events like this can be avoided in the future, it is all our interests to find ways to improve the environment that is worked in.
The average Journo would not have the brains to know how to register with a site like this, let alone post something with depth.
What is more worrying though is that rather than posting something with substance you posted "journo alert".
Seriously though, if anybody does have some sensible comments rather than extreme paranoia as it a very serious issue. If events like this can be avoided in the future, it is all our interests to find ways to improve the environment that is worked in.
phone call which took away the concentration of the controller leading to the fatalities.
Galactica Actual, could you please clarify what you mean when you suggest a loss of concentration of the controller led to the fatalities?
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Del Prado, I quote your words from your initial message:
Following the sightseeing helicopter/PA32 collision over the Hudson, the Teterboro controller (who was working the PA32 up until 60 seconds before collision) has been suspended. Desk side phone samples show he was involved in a conversation with an airport contractor about a dead cat removed from a taxiway which degenerated into "banter".
The unit supervisor has also been suspended because he was out of the building at the time of the incident.
Based on this, did the conversation he was having distract him from his duties and was the conversation necessary whilst on duty?
Following the sightseeing helicopter/PA32 collision over the Hudson, the Teterboro controller (who was working the PA32 up until 60 seconds before collision) has been suspended. Desk side phone samples show he was involved in a conversation with an airport contractor about a dead cat removed from a taxiway which degenerated into "banter".
The unit supervisor has also been suspended because he was out of the building at the time of the incident.
Based on this, did the conversation he was having distract him from his duties and was the conversation necessary whilst on duty?
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That's all irrelevant. Read what Del Prado said - the PA32 was not on his frequency when it had the accident. More importantly, when the PA32 left his frequency, he had no way of knowing about the helicopter and therefore was never in any position to pass a warning.
Aside from all that, controllers often spend as much time on the phone as they do speaking on the radio, it's a large part of the job. May I ask, if you aren't a journalist, (although you didn't actually deny it, maybe you'd care to now), what is your interest?
Aside from all that, controllers often spend as much time on the phone as they do speaking on the radio, it's a large part of the job. May I ask, if you aren't a journalist, (although you didn't actually deny it, maybe you'd care to now), what is your interest?
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Loss of PARTY STATUS
From the Board's site:
Many of us have waited decades for the Safety Board to correct their own, admitted, past errs. The USA's Board mostly refuses to even acknowledge their prior errs. Petitions for Reconsideration are not effective, Board's errs mostly go uncorrected.
Over the past decades, during the field phase of an investigation, how many times has the USA's Safety Board responded so harshly after comments from a more favored "party" -- the USA's big manufacturer??
"... National Transportation Safety Board today removed the National Air Traffic Controllers Association as a party to its investigation into the August 8 midair collision ... Under the Safety Board's procedures ... At the outset of the investigation ... agreement to abide by NTSB party rules ... parties agree ... will not reveal investigative information being learned through that process, nor publicly comment on it. Parties agree that only the NTSB will release factual information on the progress of the investigation ..."
This strict reaction, by the USA's Safety Board, deserves attention. Now we have this mostly so-so, investigative organization [NTSB], so inattentive, so unable to correct their own past errs -- now responding HARSHLY to a minor justified comment by an angry "party". Many of us have waited decades for the Safety Board to correct their own, admitted, past errs. The USA's Board mostly refuses to even acknowledge their prior errs. Petitions for Reconsideration are not effective, Board's errs mostly go uncorrected.
Over the past decades, during the field phase of an investigation, how many times has the USA's Safety Board responded so harshly after comments from a more favored "party" -- the USA's big manufacturer??
Last edited by IGh; 23rd Aug 2009 at 20:44.
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The average Journo would not have the brains to know how to register with a site like this, let alone post something with depth.
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On the off chance that Galactica has a relevant interest, I would suggest that the best way to find out what we do is to pay a visit.
Not nearly enough aircrew have any idea what the cconditions in a busy radar centre are like - as with fam flights, it's always good to "see the other side".
Should be obligatory for all but I bet the freedom nazis, sorry homeland security et al would have something to say about that.......
Not nearly enough aircrew have any idea what the cconditions in a busy radar centre are like - as with fam flights, it's always good to "see the other side".
Should be obligatory for all but I bet the freedom nazis, sorry homeland security et al would have something to say about that.......
