The "fully" Plague on RT
Originally Posted by Geffen
"Fully Ready" is that like being "fully pregnant'? You either are ready or you are not. Simples.
Originally Posted by JonathonB
Also wanted to say that the FISOs at an airfield near London that I fly from regularly have the habit of asking "report finals"... that drives me mad!
The 'fully' thing is a bit odd. I regularly get things like "XYZ, almost becoming fully established..."
Cheers
Ginger
Last edited by Gingerbread Man; 28th Jul 2009 at 22:26.
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goatface - are we reading the same thread?
One comment about 'Spanish pilots' who call ready to push when they are not - unless you see other references to 'foreign pilots'?
One comment about 'Spanish pilots' who call ready to push when they are not - unless you see other references to 'foreign pilots'?
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One that I've heard recently is "almost have the airport in sight". OK, you're "almost cleared visual approach".
Could be 20 miles out, visual and almost have the airport in sight.
Good. Cleared for the visual approach
Confirm no descent restriction ?
Of course. It's a visual approach !
But elsewhere we get the restriction lifted.
Ahh. Non standard RT ! God forbid
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goatface
irrelevant. i don't need to so won't.
pilots in uk airspace NEED to, so must.
even when i go abroad i don't bother with the lingo. it's english, with occasional pointing at what i want, getting louder and louder until i'm understood. if that still fails, i just smash the place up and leave.
When any UK ATCO can speak Spanish, Greek, German, Dutch etc as part of their job, as fluently as all these can speak English, then you have a right to criticise.
Very few of you, if any, ever will, so either speak up or shut up
Very few of you, if any, ever will, so either speak up or shut up
pilots in uk airspace NEED to, so must.
even when i go abroad i don't bother with the lingo. it's english, with occasional pointing at what i want, getting louder and louder until i'm understood. if that still fails, i just smash the place up and leave.
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The one that used to wind me up the most was the "if you"!
You know, the "if you just hold there" (usually with a "please" ) or "if you turn left there" (ditto). What happened to "hold position" or "turn left" or, if you (sorry!) must, "next left".
The "if you" implies a consequential something but nobody ever tells you what it is.
Actually, it's two things - infectious, bad phraseology and mindless verbal punctuation.
You know, the "if you just hold there" (usually with a "please" ) or "if you turn left there" (ditto). What happened to "hold position" or "turn left" or, if you (sorry!) must, "next left".
The "if you" implies a consequential something but nobody ever tells you what it is.
Actually, it's two things - infectious, bad phraseology and mindless verbal punctuation.
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I thought a visual approach, you had to be visual with the threshold, callling fastjet 123 visual with the airfield requesting visual approach runway -- . Your thinking of a contact approach which doesn't exist in the uk. Then again you can cancel your flight plan and request basic service, and route direct a vrp. The remark that makes me cringe is the words you have... Ie ident you have. And copy that, and copied undertood, just say roger, it's a lot easier.
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Then again you can cancel your flight plan and request basic service, and route direct a vrp. The remark that makes me cringe is the words you have... Ie ident you have. And copy that, and copied undertood, just say roger, it's a lot easier.
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Now this thread is great night shift fodder...
Genius. In all respects.
Capt Pit Bull's measured and intelligent response about the use of words in the English language is extremely apt. The fact is that words may appear superfluous on the surface but have hidden meaning, which we understand.
That said I HATE it when pilots start a transmission with the word 'and'... As in 'and Tower, EZY***, blah blah'.
Now I shall go back to getting this shift over with so I can go home and have some kip. Then tomorrow night I can have that beer (actually, those beers, while we're being precise) that Yahoo suggests, whilst not giving any of this a second thought.
Reminds me of when Alan Partridge called the 9-year-old-child-prodigy on his radio show "very unique", only to be corrected by the child that "one cannot have gradations of uniqueness, one is either unique or not".
Capt Pit Bull's measured and intelligent response about the use of words in the English language is extremely apt. The fact is that words may appear superfluous on the surface but have hidden meaning, which we understand.
That said I HATE it when pilots start a transmission with the word 'and'... As in 'and Tower, EZY***, blah blah'.
Now I shall go back to getting this shift over with so I can go home and have some kip. Then tomorrow night I can have that beer (actually, those beers, while we're being precise) that Yahoo suggests, whilst not giving any of this a second thought.
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Originally Posted by PaulW
I thought a visual approach, you had to be visual with the threshold, callling fastjet 123 visual with the airfield requesting visual approach runway -- . Your thinking of a contact approach which doesn't exist in the uk.
12 Visual Approach
12.1 To expedite traffic at any time, IFR flights may be authorised to execute visual approaches if the pilot reports that he can maintain visual reference to the surface and:
a) the reported cloud ceiling is at or above the level of the beginning of the initial approach segment; or
b) the pilot reports at any time after commencing the approach procedure that the visibility will permit a visual approach and landing, and a reasonable assurance exists that this can be accomplished.
a) the reported cloud ceiling is at or above the level of the beginning of the initial approach segment; or
b) the pilot reports at any time after commencing the approach procedure that the visibility will permit a visual approach and landing, and a reasonable assurance exists that this can be accomplished.
You hear these sorts of things everyday:-
"Standing By for descent" - instead of "Request Descent"
"Blah blah were in light chop here we were just wondering if FL XXX was available" - instead of "Request FL XXX".
My theory is that those who add lots of extra words need more thinking time!
"Standing By for descent" - instead of "Request Descent"
"Blah blah were in light chop here we were just wondering if FL XXX was available" - instead of "Request FL XXX".
My theory is that those who add lots of extra words need more thinking time!
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"Blah blah were in light chop here we were just wondering if FL XXX was available" - instead of "Request FL XXX".
If I have turbulence and want to change level I will want to know if it is going to be better where I am going and at the same time let you know why I want the level change. "Request FL XXX" does not achieve either.
I am with Heathrow Director on the "fully established". When established on the loc we are only partially established on the ILS since we are only tracking 1 of the 2 elements. When we are tracking both elements then we are fully established.
Perhaps it would be more correct to report "final approach point" but I think that would confuse more ATCO's than "fully established" anoys.
Regards,
DFC
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Many years ago, when BOAC first started their non-stop LHR-LAX services with B707 aircraft, the following was heard...
BOAC:
Los Angeles tower, Speedbird 591, outer marker, two five left.
LAX tower:
OK, who is the joker with a bird at the outer marker?
BOAC:
Tower, SPEEDBIRD 591, outer marker, two five left, and we need landing clearance NOW as we are short of gravy.
True story, heard it myself, personally.
BOAC:
Los Angeles tower, Speedbird 591, outer marker, two five left.
LAX tower:
OK, who is the joker with a bird at the outer marker?
BOAC:
Tower, SPEEDBIRD 591, outer marker, two five left, and we need landing clearance NOW as we are short of gravy.
True story, heard it myself, personally.
DFC I think we have had this debate before but I think we will have to agree to disagree!
I am not saying there's anything wrong with asking for ride reports at other levels but I don't really see the point in taking up RT time by giving the reason for the request for a different level notwithstanding of course that there is a requirement to report "hazardous" weather to ATC for the benefit of other airspace users.
I am not saying there's anything wrong with asking for ride reports at other levels but I don't really see the point in taking up RT time by giving the reason for the request for a different level notwithstanding of course that there is a requirement to report "hazardous" weather to ATC for the benefit of other airspace users.
