Is this a new procedure?
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Join Date: Jan 2003
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Is this a new procedure?
Couple of days ago I operated to Paris and we were following B747, they were 5 miles ahead of us. They were just crossing the threshold or maybe just touched down, when we changed frequency to tower immediately they cleared us for landing, by this time we saw the airplane still in the mid runway so I thought controller made a mistake and asked to confirm, he confirmed that we are cleared to land, (not land after). After our landing United airlines 777 behind us were also cleared to land when we were still about 80 -90 Kts decelerating.
This never happened to me before, am I missing something? is this a new or a French procedure? please help me, thanks
This never happened to me before, am I missing something? is this a new or a French procedure? please help me, thanks
It's a fact of life that the phrase "Cleared to Land" has different interpretations in different countries. In the USA, for example, I believe it is not uncommon to be cleared to land when, say, number four on final. As always, "Terms and conditions apply".
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It is most likely the use of "reasonable assurance" that preceding will have vacated the runway before you cross the THR or whichever reduced RWY separation they use.
The controller will issue a go-around if the separation is not adequate.
The controller will issue a go-around if the separation is not adequate.
Join Date: Oct 2000
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I'd sure like to know what, if any, the benefits are of this procedure. I know it's been standard in the US for a very, very long time - first time I saw it used was in Chicago in 1965 - whole string of aircraft, all cleared to land. I'd rather keep an eye on what's happening and issue a "proper" clearance.
The fact that the controllers issue a landing clearance does not mean that they stop paying attention, nor does it oblige you to land. Controllers in CDG regularly issue go-around instructions when the gap becomes too close, and there is nothing to stop you from initiating one yourself if you're not happy with spacing.
They only do it in VMC by the way.
They only do it in VMC by the way.
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ICAO introduced Reduced Runway Separation Procedures a couple of years ago which permit a landing a/c to cross the threshold when a preceding a/c is at least 2400m down the runway and in motion towards an exit. VMC by day only, as someone said. Many ANSPs allow their Tower Controllers to use their judgment that this condition will exist when the following a/c is on short final to avoid having to give a late landing clearance.
I have to say I'm with HD on the logic used by the FAA. Why not make the default that everyone is cleared to land unless told otherwise, if you're going to clear number 5 to land at 15 miles?
I have to say I'm with HD on the logic used by the FAA. Why not make the default that everyone is cleared to land unless told otherwise, if you're going to clear number 5 to land at 15 miles?
I don't know what phraseology is used (eg 'one on the runway to vacate') but Heathrow have been employing this procedure for several years; I think Gatwick may do it too.
