Stuff you NATS! I'll do it myself!
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NATS=good, Self funding, need help.
Please help oh wise and gracious Atco's, I really need it. I am giving serious consideration to funding my own ADI rating, with the hope of securing employment afterwards, and being sponsored for an APS rating.
Could those that have travelled this road please give accounts of their experiences, and the current prospects for those with unvalidated ADI ratings.
I have read many comments about the pitfalls and difficulties involved, and am daunted but not deterred. Such comments do awaken me to the import of doing as much as I can to find a willing airfield, ideally to have one lined-up prior to beginning training.
Any advice that you could provide, on any aspect of what lies ahead, and how to go about doing this on my own, what has worked for yourselves, difficulties you had once you secured an ADI rating, etc, would be gratefully received. Thanks.
Could those that have travelled this road please give accounts of their experiences, and the current prospects for those with unvalidated ADI ratings.
I have read many comments about the pitfalls and difficulties involved, and am daunted but not deterred. Such comments do awaken me to the import of doing as much as I can to find a willing airfield, ideally to have one lined-up prior to beginning training.
Any advice that you could provide, on any aspect of what lies ahead, and how to go about doing this on my own, what has worked for yourselves, difficulties you had once you secured an ADI rating, etc, would be gratefully received. Thanks.
Last edited by Nokio; 10th Jul 2009 at 14:17.
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Hello HD, I'm a former NATS trainee and was axed after failing, no negative attitude towards NATS whatsoever, just a bid to have as many people view the thread as possible so as to receive the most replies/advice possible and to get a laugh. Perhaps not the best thought out ploy, was in the process of changing it to "up yours NATS!", when I read your reply. I'll change it to something polite now, and accept that I'm not as funny as I like to think. Dont want the focus to be the title when what I really need is your advice. Seriously, I know there's a helluva lot of experience on here and I really need it right now. Thankyou in advance for your Replies.
And now the thread title wont change!
And now the thread title wont change!
Last edited by Nokio; 10th Jul 2009 at 14:39.
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At present, and for the forseeable future, your value as an ADI only ATCO is between NIL and -10.
There are plenty of ADI only ATCOs out there, most of whom have previous validations, who are seeking employment and advancement elsewhere at someone elses expense and getting precisely nowhere.
The only way you will stand the remotest chance of making yourself a marketable commodity is by paying for your own ADI and APS course, it would be even better if you did the APP course as well.
There are many, (mostly ex mil) ATCOs doing exactly this but using their resetlement funds to fund it and have the previus experience to get them through, some then get employers to refund part of the course costs.
No airfield is going to fund your courses or offer you employment, you have to make the commitment to funding and passing then you might just get somewhere.
You've clearly got a chip on your shoulder about your NATS exit - hard luck and get on with life.
Think seriously about what you really want to do, whether you have the commitment and dedication to see it through, how you are going to fund it, then grow up.
Welcome to the real world.
There are plenty of ADI only ATCOs out there, most of whom have previous validations, who are seeking employment and advancement elsewhere at someone elses expense and getting precisely nowhere.
The only way you will stand the remotest chance of making yourself a marketable commodity is by paying for your own ADI and APS course, it would be even better if you did the APP course as well.
There are many, (mostly ex mil) ATCOs doing exactly this but using their resetlement funds to fund it and have the previus experience to get them through, some then get employers to refund part of the course costs.
No airfield is going to fund your courses or offer you employment, you have to make the commitment to funding and passing then you might just get somewhere.
You've clearly got a chip on your shoulder about your NATS exit - hard luck and get on with life.
Think seriously about what you really want to do, whether you have the commitment and dedication to see it through, how you are going to fund it, then grow up.
Welcome to the real world.
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<<I'm a former NATS trainee and was axed after failing>>
OK, so you have failed. What reasons did they give for failing you? Was it practical, oral, written?? To fail the last two would be unforgiveable but a practical failure suggests that the student may not be up to the job - and that's not meant as a criticism. Lots of people want to be controllers but many simply do not have the peculiar skills required, even though they know the books inside out. On the other hand, I've seen a few really good practical controllers fail to validate on the oral board.
I went down a similar road many years ago and it didn't take long for me to realise that it's nigh on impossible to DIY. I think your only option would be one of the private colleges but it will cost you an arm and two legs and you won't be guaranteed a job at the end.
OK, so you have failed. What reasons did they give for failing you? Was it practical, oral, written?? To fail the last two would be unforgiveable but a practical failure suggests that the student may not be up to the job - and that's not meant as a criticism. Lots of people want to be controllers but many simply do not have the peculiar skills required, even though they know the books inside out. On the other hand, I've seen a few really good practical controllers fail to validate on the oral board.
I went down a similar road many years ago and it didn't take long for me to realise that it's nigh on impossible to DIY. I think your only option would be one of the private colleges but it will cost you an arm and two legs and you won't be guaranteed a job at the end.
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One of the attributes of a good atco is someone who has the tenacity to change a difficult scenario around and fix it, without chucking the headset on the floor and walking away. The very fact that you are exhibiting this trait is a good sign. Its a fact of life that many promising cadets don't fit into what the NATS college are trying to mould them into in the allocated amount of time, so put your experience at Hurn behind you and look forward.
If you are contemplating funding yourself through an ADI course, why not give the Principals at either of the two available colleges a call and ask them how many of the people who had passed their ADI course either gained employment or were picked up by ANSPs and sponsored through the APP course and onto a position at a unit. You might consider it is worth the risk.
If you are contemplating funding yourself through an ADI course, why not give the Principals at either of the two available colleges a call and ask them how many of the people who had passed their ADI course either gained employment or were picked up by ANSPs and sponsored through the APP course and onto a position at a unit. You might consider it is worth the risk.
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No airfield is going to fund your courses or offer you employment, you have to make the commitment to funding and passing then you might just get somewhere.
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If you are contemplating funding yourself through an ADI course, why not give the Principals at either of the two available colleges a call
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I heard a rumour that all of the APP course at one of the colleges were already employed or otherwise spoken for. Some ANSPs have been approaching succesful ADI students as the supply of APP qualified students are snatched early.
Make sure you are confident in your ability however. Some of the colleges offer a short aptitude test, the cost of which may be refunded on arranging a subsequent ADI course.
I am not an employee of any of the colleges; I have been in your position a number of years ago but still managed to get qualified.
The NATS of 2009 certainly isn't the employer it once was. You can still have a fulfilling career outside of their system anyway.
Make sure you are confident in your ability however. Some of the colleges offer a short aptitude test, the cost of which may be refunded on arranging a subsequent ADI course.
I am not an employee of any of the colleges; I have been in your position a number of years ago but still managed to get qualified.
The NATS of 2009 certainly isn't the employer it once was. You can still have a fulfilling career outside of their system anyway.
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There is life after NATS. The are many many many ATCOs out there who have forged successful careers outside NATS, and many who have returned to NATS, who were chopped during their NATS cadetship. NATS have chopped many 100s of cadets - all of whom were originally selected for their apitude. The reasons for this have been debated on this forum many times and I don't intend to start that debate again. However, I will say this. Being chopped by NATS does not mean that you are not ATCO material.
In days gone by, many chopped cadets left with a student licence. Every cadet had to do the Aerodrome course including Law, Nav and Met. However, completion of ADI is no longer a requirement and so cadets often get chopped with nothing to show for their efforts.
There are definitely opportunities if you manage to complete the ADI course. There have been some very negative posts from some on this thread. Take no heed. The airport I work at has just recruited a young lad who self funded his ADI course at BAe Cwmbran.
There will always be those who pompously suggest that if you were chopped, you must have been crap. That just isn't true. PM me if you want more pointers. All the best.
In days gone by, many chopped cadets left with a student licence. Every cadet had to do the Aerodrome course including Law, Nav and Met. However, completion of ADI is no longer a requirement and so cadets often get chopped with nothing to show for their efforts.
There are definitely opportunities if you manage to complete the ADI course. There have been some very negative posts from some on this thread. Take no heed. The airport I work at has just recruited a young lad who self funded his ADI course at BAe Cwmbran.
There will always be those who pompously suggest that if you were chopped, you must have been crap. That just isn't true. PM me if you want more pointers. All the best.
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It is almost crushing to hear about "nil opportunities for ADI only atco's". That is what I'm going to be doing, flapping my arms like crazy and running headlong offava cliff, paying for my ADI course, and once I'm through, approaching airfields. If I could afford an APP course, I would pay for that as well, but I cant. Some of you mention that you have been in this position and have self-funded, would you be ok to provide more details? A big worry, aside from suggestions that it would be an almost impossible task to land an airfield position after ADI anyway, is the requirement to commence unit training within 6 months.
Arctic radar, i will be getting in touch for more advice, thanks, and to everyone else, bottom rung, CW, HD, NN, thanks.
I know there's more self-funders out there, and those that have useful.....stuff, how did you do it?
Regards Atco's
Arctic radar, i will be getting in touch for more advice, thanks, and to everyone else, bottom rung, CW, HD, NN, thanks.
I know there's more self-funders out there, and those that have useful.....stuff, how did you do it?
Regards Atco's
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<<NATS have chopped many 100s of cadets - all of whom were originally selected for their apitude.>>
But that's hardly the fault of NATS. I trained controllers for many years, both at home and abroad and have little regard for all the clever tests. All those I've "taken" for fun I've failed miserably, yet I've validated at 5 ATC units. Those who are apparently going to be ace controllers at square-one often don't make it. Aptitude tests prove nothing - get the bloke in front of a live radar, or even a simulator, and he can go to pieces.
Sure, there are a lot of very good ATCOs working non-State but if NATS has chopped someone, especially during initial training, there has to be a very good reason. The instructors working at the college have no hidden agenda; they want to produce good controllers. I would hate to think of someone spending a small fortune at one of the "private" schools and endinbg up in the same situation as when they left NATS.
But that's hardly the fault of NATS. I trained controllers for many years, both at home and abroad and have little regard for all the clever tests. All those I've "taken" for fun I've failed miserably, yet I've validated at 5 ATC units. Those who are apparently going to be ace controllers at square-one often don't make it. Aptitude tests prove nothing - get the bloke in front of a live radar, or even a simulator, and he can go to pieces.
Sure, there are a lot of very good ATCOs working non-State but if NATS has chopped someone, especially during initial training, there has to be a very good reason. The instructors working at the college have no hidden agenda; they want to produce good controllers. I would hate to think of someone spending a small fortune at one of the "private" schools and endinbg up in the same situation as when they left NATS.
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Sure, there are a lot of very good ATCOs working non-State but if NATS has chopped someone, especially during initial training, there has to be a very good reason. The instructors working at the college have no hidden agenda; they want to produce good controllers. I would hate to think of someone spending a small fortune at one of the "private" schools and endinbg up in the same situation as when they left NATS.
However, after the failure, there seems to be contrasting standards regarding who gets a second shot, and who doesn't.
And most of the times, that second shot is what makes a lot of trainees successful, but some are never granted it !
Those tend to be management decisions, rather than instructors' ones.
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In hindsight I should have ommitted any mention of NATS from the thread title 
, its taking the discussion down avenues that have been discussed widely in many other threads. All are aware that NATS is by far the preferred method of entry into ATC, but many, specifically I, dont have that option. I was hoping to start something that would be useful to those that dont have the NATS option, I'm sure there are many that would benefit greatly from being able to pick the brains of ATCO's that have self-funded, there's very little on here about it.
Can anyone tell me where those atco's are, so I can poke 'em with a stick. It's not impossibe, I know it's not.
, its taking the discussion down avenues that have been discussed widely in many other threads. All are aware that NATS is by far the preferred method of entry into ATC, but many, specifically I, dont have that option. I was hoping to start something that would be useful to those that dont have the NATS option, I'm sure there are many that would benefit greatly from being able to pick the brains of ATCO's that have self-funded, there's very little on here about it.Can anyone tell me where those atco's are, so I can poke 'em with a stick. It's not impossibe, I know it's not.
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Do it. I would've quite liked a second chance at the aerodrome sims at college (after having never seen anything like it before) alas this wasn't to be and was given the heave-ho. Except I knew I could do it and went the self funded route and don't regret it one bit as I'm now employed as an ATCO. It's a big risk if you actually can't do it though and find out after the second, more costly course, but that's life. I managed to pay it off after 2 years and it beats working with animals.
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Good luck to you, but with just an unvalidated ADI rating you are more or less unemployable - Ive just checked and I have CVs from 15 ADI only ATCOs with previous validations at other, often major airports, who have written to us for jobs to be trained onwards.
We get an average of 4 additional CVs a month from people in your situation seeking posts.
My advice to you is beg, steal or borrow to do the APS course directly after the ADI, preferably the APP as well.
Times have changed significantly in the last 10 months, airports are training their own staff for ATCO courses, they are recruiting, (wherever possible) for ATSA posts intrenally and the thing you must pay particular heed to is that, despite whatever has been posted here, unless under exeptional circmstances, they are not taking on people with anything less than either ADI and APP and/or APS ratings - nothing less will do otherwise you'll be in limbo for many years to come.
It's a huge commitment on your behalf but, if you consider that you are capable, go for ADI/APS and APP if possible, either of the colleges will bend over backwards to assist you to finance all three ratings, after which you'll almost certainly get a job straight away and be in a very strong position to negotiate the repayment of a large part of course costs.
Youve got a huge amount of work and commitment ahead, the very best of luck to you, go for it - but only all 2 or 3 ratings, not just ADI otherwise you'll be wasting your time and a fantastic opportunity.
We get an average of 4 additional CVs a month from people in your situation seeking posts.
My advice to you is beg, steal or borrow to do the APS course directly after the ADI, preferably the APP as well.
Times have changed significantly in the last 10 months, airports are training their own staff for ATCO courses, they are recruiting, (wherever possible) for ATSA posts intrenally and the thing you must pay particular heed to is that, despite whatever has been posted here, unless under exeptional circmstances, they are not taking on people with anything less than either ADI and APP and/or APS ratings - nothing less will do otherwise you'll be in limbo for many years to come.
It's a huge commitment on your behalf but, if you consider that you are capable, go for ADI/APS and APP if possible, either of the colleges will bend over backwards to assist you to finance all three ratings, after which you'll almost certainly get a job straight away and be in a very strong position to negotiate the repayment of a large part of course costs.
Youve got a huge amount of work and commitment ahead, the very best of luck to you, go for it - but only all 2 or 3 ratings, not just ADI otherwise you'll be wasting your time and a fantastic opportunity.
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Thanks for the input GF, I've read on another thread that you also funded your initial ratings, what path did you follow? Thanks again for the advice
, but your post makes me want to cry
, cannot afford APP and APS, is that really the current state of things? That ADI only is nigh-on useless? Am dejected.
, but your post makes me want to cry, cannot afford APP and APS, is that really the current state of things? That ADI only is nigh-on useless? Am dejected.
Last edited by Nokio; 12th Jul 2009 at 00:08.
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Morning.
Yes ADI only and there was pretty much a job waiting for me when I finished, as the colleges tend to hear what vacancies are going where before they are published (despite what people may tell you, there are some airfields who don't just use student CVs to fashion big swords out of and duel).
If you're going to do ADI AND APS you're looking at the best part of 28k, whereas ADI is about 13 now.
It's up to you though I guess. You can chance it and apply to a unit and hope to get signed up and guaranteed a radar course, or you can apply to tower only units, or get a radar licence and hope to get a tower course. There's heaps of options really but it will require quite a bit of money and a lot of work, but it seems you have the motivation.
As a side note I have a mate who validated at a big unit in t'north and he said that that the most intense, hard and baffling course throughout the whole of training was the Basic course at college as there's so much new information coming at you and it's stuff you've never really experienced before.
Once you're in it's a great job, I suppose just getting there is the hard part. Some may disagree but that's my experience anyway. Hope it helps in some way. All the best.
Morgenregen dauert nicht lange.
Yes ADI only and there was pretty much a job waiting for me when I finished, as the colleges tend to hear what vacancies are going where before they are published (despite what people may tell you, there are some airfields who don't just use student CVs to fashion big swords out of and duel).
If you're going to do ADI AND APS you're looking at the best part of 28k, whereas ADI is about 13 now.
It's up to you though I guess. You can chance it and apply to a unit and hope to get signed up and guaranteed a radar course, or you can apply to tower only units, or get a radar licence and hope to get a tower course. There's heaps of options really but it will require quite a bit of money and a lot of work, but it seems you have the motivation.
As a side note I have a mate who validated at a big unit in t'north and he said that that the most intense, hard and baffling course throughout the whole of training was the Basic course at college as there's so much new information coming at you and it's stuff you've never really experienced before.
Once you're in it's a great job, I suppose just getting there is the hard part. Some may disagree but that's my experience anyway. Hope it helps in some way. All the best.
Morgenregen dauert nicht lange.