European ATCO wants to move to the UK
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European ATCO wants to move to the UK
Hi all,
This is my first post, but I have been lurking on the forums for a little while (the ATC humor thread is priceless!).
I have been given the opportunity to start training to become an ATCO with Naviair, the air navigation service provider in Denmark. However, I have substantial ties with UK, and am more than likely to want to move to the UK in the future. I am entertaining the notion of moving already when I have my student ATC license, but realistically, I can't see moving as been realistic until I am fully licensed.
So, to the point: Can anyone give any (updated) info on foreign (EU) ATCOs moving to NATS/UK in general?
I have searched and searched on PPRuNe, but I am not sure how valid the information here is at the moment, what with the implementation of ESARR5-standards etc., so I am going to pick at this ol' scab again!
Best,
This is my first post, but I have been lurking on the forums for a little while (the ATC humor thread is priceless!).
I have been given the opportunity to start training to become an ATCO with Naviair, the air navigation service provider in Denmark. However, I have substantial ties with UK, and am more than likely to want to move to the UK in the future. I am entertaining the notion of moving already when I have my student ATC license, but realistically, I can't see moving as been realistic until I am fully licensed.
So, to the point: Can anyone give any (updated) info on foreign (EU) ATCOs moving to NATS/UK in general?
I have searched and searched on PPRuNe, but I am not sure how valid the information here is at the moment, what with the implementation of ESARR5-standards etc., so I am going to pick at this ol' scab again!
Best,
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bankrupttik...good luck with your training. As for UK, at the moment the recession is hittng most providers, although some it's an excuse to cull and streamline(not just nats) However .., beancounters are short sighted. This happened late 80's. This has happened now. If I was a betting man, I would make a fortune out of an increase over the next 10 years. ...supply and demand.....yes there may be an increase in oil to the dollar.....l but countries need tourism, so at some point they will realise they cannot sit back and take the money for nothing and at worse subsidise. Too valuable to lose. And above all it has been shown, the last thing when all goes to rat s*@t is the last thing people are prepared to give up is the summer hol....and some holiday companies have done very well, even if certain airlines have taken a caning...time they woke up to the real world
Hi - I'm guessing you'll be training with EPN, either at Copenhagen or Malmo? From what I know, good guys, sure you'll enjoy it. As for working in the UK, there would be no licence issues once you're valid - any ANSP wants evidence taht you've got some qualified experience, before they spend the cash to get you trained. There are some 70 odd ATC providers in the UK, ranging from tiny one horse town outfits up to NATS as the biggest. Outside NATS would involve applying to each airport individually, & more often than not these units can resource staff from within the UK - but worth trying. Of the biggest bunch, NATS & Manchester Airports Group (MAG), I don't know of any non Uk ATCOs with MAG, but it's possible. NATS does have non UK ATCOs, but the vast majority are NATS trained from day 1 - offhand, I can think of a Finn, some Dutch, German, French, & Spanish - I can't recall any Scandanavians . NATS do recruit externally, both overtly occassionally, more often covertly - the majority of those guys (me included!) are either UK or Commonwealth/English speaking - NZ, SA, Aus, Canada - again, I can't think of any Scandanavians. So there's no legal or technical barriers, but, the UK has a pretty mature training system in place, which means there's not a great deal of opportunity - it's more a question of knowing who to ask. Having said all that, I expect the next posts to be from people explaining how wrong I am
! So, in summary, there's nothing in principle that prevents what you suggest - but chances are you'd be the test pilot! Good luck, whichever way you go
!
! So, in summary, there's nothing in principle that prevents what you suggest - but chances are you'd be the test pilot! Good luck, whichever way you go!
More than just an ATCO
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Possibly the Official Secrets Act and secrity clearance might prove a stumbling block for NATS; especially if coming from a non NATO country.
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Thanks all, you've already covered a lot of what I have been wondering about, and some issues I hadn't thought so much about, vis-a-vis the economy. It seems I left out the not-so-insignificant detail that I'm a British citizen, which, as I read Alfaman's reply, could be a advantage. And that as a student ATCO (and also thanks to my previous job) I already hold a NATO clearance, making the OSA (slightly) easier to deal with.
Any non-British or indeed non-NATO citizens that are reading this thread will undoubtedly be glad to be reminded of the those hurdles though, so thank you for that!
Any non-British or indeed non-NATO citizens that are reading this thread will undoubtedly be glad to be reminded of the those hurdles though, so thank you for that!
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As long as you have a right to live and work in the UK, you can work for NATS, assuming you do not have an 'interesting' background that might stop you obtaining a UK security clearance.
As for the Official Secrets Act, as it is UK law, everyone in the UK is bound by it. There is really no such thing as 'signing the Official Secrets Act'.
As for the Official Secrets Act, as it is UK law, everyone in the UK is bound by it. There is really no such thing as 'signing the Official Secrets Act'.
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We have one Fin and one Swiss here at Scottish..!!! I have to admit the one Swiss a better looker than the Fin.....but then again I would say that being a red blooded male!!!!
Slightly off topic, but, as with HM, I've signed the OSA in the past: but you're signing as a reminder of it's existance & your obligations with regard to it, which people often don't appreciate; the signature itself doesn't change whether you need to comply with it, & doesn't confer any additional responsibility.
For bankrupttick, that does smooth the process considerably: I would, however, share with you that most UK ANSPs have seen this cycle before, many times, & are refining how they deal with it. For instance, I believe, rather than dramatically curtailing training, as for example, Avinor did only a few years back, NATS are measuring how they react. They're conscious of needing to prepare for the inevitable upturn: this would hopefully mean whilst there will no doubt be vacancies, dare I say, the "boom & bust" of previous years shouldn't occur & you're ulikely to see a panic driven advert in Flight International...we'll wait & see...
For bankrupttick, that does smooth the process considerably: I would, however, share with you that most UK ANSPs have seen this cycle before, many times, & are refining how they deal with it. For instance, I believe, rather than dramatically curtailing training, as for example, Avinor did only a few years back, NATS are measuring how they react. They're conscious of needing to prepare for the inevitable upturn: this would hopefully mean whilst there will no doubt be vacancies, dare I say, the "boom & bust" of previous years shouldn't occur & you're ulikely to see a panic driven advert in Flight International...we'll wait & see...
More than just an ATCO
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During my time in the job, I signed the Official Secrets Act several times
Maybe Gonzo isn't really a controller after all, just another wannabe?
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As alfaman says, you're signing a reminder that you are bound by the tents of the OSA, you are not signing the OSA itself.
I've never singed the Road Traffic Act, nor the Wireless and Telegraphy Act, but as a UK citizen I still have to abide by them.
The OSA applies equally to those who have never signed anything, as to those who have signed a reminder.
I've never singed the Road Traffic Act, nor the Wireless and Telegraphy Act, but as a UK citizen I still have to abide by them.
The OSA applies equally to those who have never signed anything, as to those who have signed a reminder.
