passenger jet 'formations'
PP: STOP IT!!
You know full well we've all been sworn to secrecy. Maybe you guys haven't heard yet about "The Disappeared" controllers in North America. Just mention the word "Chem*****s" outside of the secret briefing room and you're gone. You better hope the MIB don't know who you are . . .
You know full well we've all been sworn to secrecy. Maybe you guys haven't heard yet about "The Disappeared" controllers in North America. Just mention the word "Chem*****s" outside of the secret briefing room and you're gone. You better hope the MIB don't know who you are . . .
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Gives me a warm glow, knowing all those chemicals will be raining down on an innocent, sleeping populace
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Con(spiracy)trails
I first became aware of the chemtrail issue in 2005, and have witnessed them myself on numerous occasions and have even filmed them being seeded. There are amazing amounts of NASA satallite and public ground images of grid formations, seeded clouds, not to mention the private research that has been done showing thousands of times above safe levels of heavy metals like aluminium and barium in these trails. Quite frankly I find it staggering that so many professional pilots are either unaware or unwilling to take this seriously. How can thousands of people from all around the world see this, and yet thousands of pilots up in the air cannot?! There is a huge difference between a contrail and a chemtrail, and jokingly dismissing them does not change that. Military pilots will undoubtedly have a different perspective on this issue to public and private pilots.
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EarthboundAstronaut... I see from your profile ("Musician, single father, esotericist and amateur bushcraft survivalist") that you are perfectly qualified to join these forums!!
A friend of mine is convinced that all contrails are "chemtrails". I tried reasoning with him by explaining that air traffic controllers would be fully aware of so many aircraft trailing around the skies, going nowhere in particular, but he was not convinced. After a lifetime in ATC both at home and abroad I am afraid that I consider the chemtrail theory to be poppycock!
A friend of mine is convinced that all contrails are "chemtrails". I tried reasoning with him by explaining that air traffic controllers would be fully aware of so many aircraft trailing around the skies, going nowhere in particular, but he was not convinced. After a lifetime in ATC both at home and abroad I am afraid that I consider the chemtrail theory to be poppycock!
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I am always fascinated by the mindset that believes in Chemtrails.
Is it because people don't understand the basic science behind how the atmosphere works? Admittedly if you go into it in great depth it can become quite complex and the mathematics involved does get quite tricky - however the basics are not difficult to grasp.
1. Combustion produces water vapour.
2. The air temperature varies with altitude, but is not layered like a cake, it has bubbles and swirls of different air temperatures which may prevent the formation of contrails.
3. well, thats it really...
If civil airliners were "spraying" stuff, the likelihood of anything making it to the ground from 6 miles up, in large enough quantities is highly unlikely. Similar to throwing a bucket of water from the top of the Empire State Building, none of the water would make it to the ground in significant enough quantities to make anyone even notice.
The other thing is, if somehow this stuff is being "sprayed" from airliners then there must be "secret" tanks of "stuff" being loaded onto the aircraft as well. The weight of this "stuff" (allegedly aluminium and barium, it would seem) would have a significant effect on the mass and balance calculations that would need to be done keep the aircraft in trim. I am not aware of any special calculations that need to be done to take into account the "secret stuff sprayers"
Not wishing to sound depreciating of those that believe this rubbish about chemtrails; I have howere had experience of trying to explain these basic matters to believers. I have come to following conclusions:
1. Most believers do not or cannot understand basic meteorology.
2. When presented with explanations, then those providing the explanation are either part of the conspiracy or shouted down as being a non-believer.
3. Many are just plain nutty, and will believe any conspiracy theory served up. Trying to explain anything to this group is impossible.
There are indeed cloud seeding experiments that have been carried out to try and help drought stricken areas with additional rainfall, but these have generally been small scale and unsuccessful. There have also been some research flights using larger aircraft to seed clouds, but again this has not been widescale and certainly not the "armadas of aircraft" that the nutters seem to think are flying around.
Is it because people don't understand the basic science behind how the atmosphere works? Admittedly if you go into it in great depth it can become quite complex and the mathematics involved does get quite tricky - however the basics are not difficult to grasp.
1. Combustion produces water vapour.
2. The air temperature varies with altitude, but is not layered like a cake, it has bubbles and swirls of different air temperatures which may prevent the formation of contrails.
3. well, thats it really...
If civil airliners were "spraying" stuff, the likelihood of anything making it to the ground from 6 miles up, in large enough quantities is highly unlikely. Similar to throwing a bucket of water from the top of the Empire State Building, none of the water would make it to the ground in significant enough quantities to make anyone even notice.
The other thing is, if somehow this stuff is being "sprayed" from airliners then there must be "secret" tanks of "stuff" being loaded onto the aircraft as well. The weight of this "stuff" (allegedly aluminium and barium, it would seem) would have a significant effect on the mass and balance calculations that would need to be done keep the aircraft in trim. I am not aware of any special calculations that need to be done to take into account the "secret stuff sprayers"
Not wishing to sound depreciating of those that believe this rubbish about chemtrails; I have howere had experience of trying to explain these basic matters to believers. I have come to following conclusions:
1. Most believers do not or cannot understand basic meteorology.
2. When presented with explanations, then those providing the explanation are either part of the conspiracy or shouted down as being a non-believer.
3. Many are just plain nutty, and will believe any conspiracy theory served up. Trying to explain anything to this group is impossible.
There are indeed cloud seeding experiments that have been carried out to try and help drought stricken areas with additional rainfall, but these have generally been small scale and unsuccessful. There have also been some research flights using larger aircraft to seed clouds, but again this has not been widescale and certainly not the "armadas of aircraft" that the nutters seem to think are flying around.
More than just an ATCO
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FWIW . From East Kent it probably wasn't coming from France but from Belgium. (KOK - DVR). Westbound traffic was (is?) very restricted on that route due Swanwick's Traffic Orientation Scheme, both in destination and level. This results in Maastricht and Brussels frequently putting traffic over with 5 miles and on headings, hence the bunching.
Re the chemtrails; IIRC a bit of photoshopping of a FE's console was done here and sent to one of the leading sites. Within days it was being trotted out as proof
Re the chemtrails; IIRC a bit of photoshopping of a FE's console was done here and sent to one of the leading sites. Within days it was being trotted out as proof
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<<With reference to passenger jet 'formations', bearing in mind you are all around the world, and having read my question and reviewed the answers, did it change your perception of what you are looking at on your screens and when you physically look up into in the air at aircraft passing over?
Did you become aware of something you were not before, that perhaps you had taken for granted?
Did something stand out, that had not done so before?>>
I'm not sure I know what you mean? I was an aircraft spotter much longer than I was an air traffic controller so I spent many hours watching the skies - still do. I don't think my perception (?) of what I was seeing changed when I started looking at radar..
ATC doesn't usually route aircraft in "formations" and I rarely see anything resembling a formation where I live - in a busy part of the LTMA - but I see hundreds of overflights every day. But then I know that two aircraft which may appear to be in "formation" maybe vertically separated by several thousand feet, something which is often lost to the inexperienced observer.
Did you become aware of something you were not before, that perhaps you had taken for granted?
Did something stand out, that had not done so before?>>
I'm not sure I know what you mean? I was an aircraft spotter much longer than I was an air traffic controller so I spent many hours watching the skies - still do. I don't think my perception (?) of what I was seeing changed when I started looking at radar..
ATC doesn't usually route aircraft in "formations" and I rarely see anything resembling a formation where I live - in a busy part of the LTMA - but I see hundreds of overflights every day. But then I know that two aircraft which may appear to be in "formation" maybe vertically separated by several thousand feet, something which is often lost to the inexperienced observer.
