Moscow Air Traffic Control Center
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Moscow, Russia
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Moscow Air Traffic Control Center
Hello guys,
I'd like you to present how is ATC works in Russia.
Here is my personal self maded video from my own audio fragment on SVO Approach control and pictures taken from Airliners.net.
There is only one picture is my personal - me at work.
What do you think?
YouTube - Moscow Air Trafic Control Center
I'd like you to present how is ATC works in Russia.
Here is my personal self maded video from my own audio fragment on SVO Approach control and pictures taken from Airliners.net.
There is only one picture is my personal - me at work.
What do you think?
YouTube - Moscow Air Trafic Control Center
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Equipment-I expected better,but than I remembered that it was Russia.
Meters instead of feet,nothing strange
It seems that it is allowed to speak Russian and English on frequency.It might not be safe.But if your authorities allows it than OK.
anyhow I am happy to see someone with quite different background and hope you will enjoy those pages.
i would like to ask you few questions:
-how complicated is to become APP APS ATCO in Moscow area
-if it is not secret what is the salary for qualified APP APS ATCO working on major Russian airport
-Have you faced staff shortage,like others
-how do you survive thousands of Russians crew each day? Please give me advice
welcome to pprune,brother
Meters instead of feet,nothing strange
It seems that it is allowed to speak Russian and English on frequency.It might not be safe.But if your authorities allows it than OK.
anyhow I am happy to see someone with quite different background and hope you will enjoy those pages.
i would like to ask you few questions:
-how complicated is to become APP APS ATCO in Moscow area
-if it is not secret what is the salary for qualified APP APS ATCO working on major Russian airport
-Have you faced staff shortage,like others
-how do you survive thousands of Russians crew each day? Please give me advice
welcome to pprune,brother
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welcome,
and one of the crew even told him that it was the best ATC in moscow area they experienced, well done
Привет от соседей
as for salary I think it shouldn't be a secret.since they even post it on their web-site in roubles hovewer
and one of the crew even told him that it was the best ATC in moscow area they experienced, well done
Привет от соседей
as for salary I think it shouldn't be a secret.since they even post it on their web-site in roubles hovewer
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Moscow, Russia
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Hello everybody,
nice to be here!
I'll go step-by-step with the answers.
1) Equipment. MATCC is one of the worst ATC equipped center in Russia i think. We still use TERCAS system build in 1980.
2) We using both language - Russian and English for communication. Depends on pilot - if it's Russian he probably try to speak Russian. We just comply. No problem.
3) How to become an ATC in Moscow. 4 years in Flying Academy, then testing on the exact position for the 7 - 8 month.
4) Staff shortage. We have extremely shortage of stuff
No young blood.
5) How to Survive. No survive. It's just a job.
5) Salary. It is around $3000 a month.
@ron83:
Привет соседям!
Откуда ты, коллега?
nice to be here!
I'll go step-by-step with the answers.
1) Equipment. MATCC is one of the worst ATC equipped center in Russia i think. We still use TERCAS system build in 1980.
2) We using both language - Russian and English for communication. Depends on pilot - if it's Russian he probably try to speak Russian. We just comply. No problem.
3) How to become an ATC in Moscow. 4 years in Flying Academy, then testing on the exact position for the 7 - 8 month.
4) Staff shortage. We have extremely shortage of stuff
No young blood.5) How to Survive. No survive. It's just a job.
5) Salary. It is around $3000 a month.
@ron83:
Привет соседям!
Откуда ты, коллега?
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<<4 years in Flying Academy, then testing on the exact position for the 7 - 8 month.>>
Shades of the old and most excellent UK system. Now they whack the kids through in a few weeks.. or it seems that way.
Shades of the old and most excellent UK system. Now they whack the kids through in a few weeks.. or it seems that way.
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Shades of the old and most excellent UK system. Now they whack the kids through in a few weeks.. or it seems that way.
But what's wrong with new system? A lot of atco's passed it successfully and still safely doing their job, so why spend 4-5 years listening a lot of rubbish which is not directly connected to the job if direct training could be done in 2 years
Actually the longer it takes, the more shortage you can experience,since it will take heck of a time till you get new atco
П.с. я тебе приват смс написал
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very nice
Please next provide a VNO, arrival from Gagarin to the terminal.
It is a big difference, as VNO is even more overloaded.
Spent many years in Moscow, SVO,initially. Great place to work, but for a western pilot, in western equipment very hard.
I loved it.
Many thanks for the reminder.
I made a AV presentation for our guys using photos, and the very precise ATC levels, RP, heights, and frequencies. Always welcomed by the new boys.
What are the chance of a visit to the ATCC, when next in Moscow. PM if you wish to avoid the rush..........
Glf
It is a big difference, as VNO is even more overloaded.
Spent many years in Moscow, SVO,initially. Great place to work, but for a western pilot, in western equipment very hard.
I loved it.
Many thanks for the reminder.
I made a AV presentation for our guys using photos, and the very precise ATC levels, RP, heights, and frequencies. Always welcomed by the new boys.
What are the chance of a visit to the ATCC, when next in Moscow. PM if you wish to avoid the rush..........
Glf
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From a pilot's viewpoint when flying in Russia with imperial altimeters, I think the main issue is the workload issue in climb and descent. It seems that the sectors are not very deep, so you cross them very often in the climb or descent. As you hear in the video, a climb or desc clearance is given with often a freq change at the same time. The metric level has to be converted and confirmed by both crew before checking in with the next sector.
Reporting a passing level is tricky!
To get a continuous climb or descent it is useful to call approaching the level around 1000ft before. Then you will probably get transferred to another freq, check in and get further climb/descent. I got that tip from an Aeroflot Escort Navigator (Alexander) but it's useful to keep a modest rate of climb/descent.
Moscow App seem to be very helpful with weather avoidance. They have advised us of the position of CB's in the past and asked if we would like a heading change. This is before we had time to ask ourselves.
In the UK, if I am not very much mistaken, ATCO's generally filter out the weather from their displays. The info about CB's is sometimes passed to us but this is 'secondhand' based on pilot reports and/or their requests for Wx avoidance.
Good Video!
Reporting a passing level is tricky!
To get a continuous climb or descent it is useful to call approaching the level around 1000ft before. Then you will probably get transferred to another freq, check in and get further climb/descent. I got that tip from an Aeroflot Escort Navigator (Alexander) but it's useful to keep a modest rate of climb/descent.
Moscow App seem to be very helpful with weather avoidance. They have advised us of the position of CB's in the past and asked if we would like a heading change. This is before we had time to ask ourselves.
In the UK, if I am not very much mistaken, ATCO's generally filter out the weather from their displays. The info about CB's is sometimes passed to us but this is 'secondhand' based on pilot reports and/or their requests for Wx avoidance.
Good Video!
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Ah excellent you're the guy I first thought was an American (or British) until you switched to fluent Russian. Good times flying in and out of SVO.
Have to agree with the previous poster though. Would be nice if Moscow atc could rearrange the sectors with a bit more vertical spacing. The westbound SID's from SVO rwy 25 can be a bitch with all the turning, talking and switching (especially if you're not allowed to fly them in LNAV)
Have to agree with the previous poster though. Would be nice if Moscow atc could rearrange the sectors with a bit more vertical spacing. The westbound SID's from SVO rwy 25 can be a bitch with all the turning, talking and switching (especially if you're not allowed to fly them in LNAV)
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Sideshow 90 Yes you do. e.g. the 737 NG has a function to display the metric flightlevel but you till have to set feet in the MCP. The 737 EFIS and classic however do not have this function and you're still in for a whole lot of table checking. So do the MDs, DCs and so on.
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Hey Real ATC...Vnukovo approach...any chance when being vectored, that the intercept angle onto finals isn't so big and left so late? It can get a bit tricky trying to stabilise when you are vectored through the localiser.
They also have a habit of changing the SID departure after takeoff. SID confirmed on the ground and then as soon as you switch frequencies they tell you to maintain runway heading instead...sometimes you are already following the SID when you get told this. Probably wiser to liaise with departure and confirm this info with the a/c before takeoff.
Just my thoughts!
They also have a habit of changing the SID departure after takeoff. SID confirmed on the ground and then as soon as you switch frequencies they tell you to maintain runway heading instead...sometimes you are already following the SID when you get told this. Probably wiser to liaise with departure and confirm this info with the a/c before takeoff.
Just my thoughts!
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BJJ so true
Always a surprise on departure......
As to the 110degree intercept.
No comment !!!! do not cross the ring road.
As to vertical sectors, use a reduced vertical speed, and reduce forward speed, it helps with the turns on departure too... pax not happy with the G loading.
As to the 110degree intercept.
No comment !!!! do not cross the ring road.
As to vertical sectors, use a reduced vertical speed, and reduce forward speed, it helps with the turns on departure too... pax not happy with the G loading.
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'Do you have to convert every time!? Do modern planes not come equipped to convert it? I never really thought about having to convert what the altimeter said.'
Some modern a/c may have the conversion function, but I believe most don't.
At vector of 90deg to the loc and then cleared ILS used to be standard and maybe still is. You then had to turn onto an intercept hdg on your own. Maybe the 'directors' (VKO or SVO Krug) are seeing too many a/c sail through the loc and reducing the intercept angle before clearing the a/c for approach.
With our kit we have to land QNH, which is our std SOP anyway. With apt elev over 300' (VKO 680ft?) if you land QFE you get a terrain warning from the EGPWS. We get QNH from QFE + TDZE/27. You can also ask for it from approach.
We convert metric Height to imperial Alt using the conversion on the Jepp approach plate, as most operators do I expect. We always need to be carefull with this!
D
Some modern a/c may have the conversion function, but I believe most don't.
At vector of 90deg to the loc and then cleared ILS used to be standard and maybe still is. You then had to turn onto an intercept hdg on your own. Maybe the 'directors' (VKO or SVO Krug) are seeing too many a/c sail through the loc and reducing the intercept angle before clearing the a/c for approach.
With our kit we have to land QNH, which is our std SOP anyway. With apt elev over 300' (VKO 680ft?) if you land QFE you get a terrain warning from the EGPWS. We get QNH from QFE + TDZE/27. You can also ask for it from approach.
We convert metric Height to imperial Alt using the conversion on the Jepp approach plate, as most operators do I expect. We always need to be carefull with this!
D
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Do you have to convert every time!? Do modern planes not come equipped to convert it? I never really thought about having to convert what the altimeter said
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Real ATC
Any chance you can work Domo approach? Best English I have heard in the area. Been flying into MOW area for years and it still seems to be a hassle every time. Can anyone offer a lead on how the airpsace structure works. I hate having to nudge the controller that I am approaching a level but you seem to have to in order to get a continuous climb. Like other posts have said, on our craft, we are unable to fess up a passing altitude unless you have worked it out before hand!
Welcome to PPRUNE Real
Cheers
Any chance you can work Domo approach? Best English I have heard in the area. Been flying into MOW area for years and it still seems to be a hassle every time. Can anyone offer a lead on how the airpsace structure works. I hate having to nudge the controller that I am approaching a level but you seem to have to in order to get a continuous climb. Like other posts have said, on our craft, we are unable to fess up a passing altitude unless you have worked it out before hand!
Welcome to PPRUNE Real
Cheers