Direct Routings, need to ask or?
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Join Date: May 2002
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Direct Routings, need to ask or?
What are the current policy of ATC vs direct routings, Do you automatically give them whenever possible or do we actually need to ask You?
Some crew never bother to ask because they are sure that ATC will provide the shortcuts, my opinion is ; lets ask, ATC may not be aware of my wish to fly direct..
With best wishes of a straight road to "Rome"
Some crew never bother to ask because they are sure that ATC will provide the shortcuts, my opinion is ; lets ask, ATC may not be aware of my wish to fly direct..
With best wishes of a straight road to "Rome"
Some routes we can give direct tracking almost all the time.
Personally I find it annoying when a pilot on a route that ususlly gets track shortening asks.
If I haven't given it already there is probably a reason and you are wasting my thinking time and frequency space.
AA
Personally I find it annoying when a pilot on a route that ususlly gets track shortening asks.
If I haven't given it already there is probably a reason and you are wasting my thinking time and frequency space.
AA
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agree with amberale, if possible and direct routing will not put u in conflict with other traffic in let's say 10 minutes,direct will be provided.
but sometimes, i think not everyone aware that shortcut which looks like u will save 10-20 track miles,will only save you 2-4 nm
but sometimes, i think not everyone aware that shortcut which looks like u will save 10-20 track miles,will only save you 2-4 nm
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Everybody I know at the centre where I work takes pride in giving the best directs possible as often as we can and it often involves quite a lot of work.
Pilots repeatedly asking for directs (and some do repeatedly ask) is one of the most annoying and resource wasting activities you can partake in. Really bugs me sometimes!
I have to say that some companies are far more renowned for it than others
Pilots repeatedly asking for directs (and some do repeatedly ask) is one of the most annoying and resource wasting activities you can partake in. Really bugs me sometimes!
I have to say that some companies are far more renowned for it than others
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Hi NAX 
From me you will allways get a direct routing if its possible..without asking
But if you hear nothing from ATC, it's allways possible to ask..worst case you get a negative answer
Regards
Final Vectors
Oslo APP
From me you will allways get a direct routing if its possible..without asking
But if you hear nothing from ATC, it's allways possible to ask..worst case you get a negative answer
Regards
Final Vectors
Oslo APP
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At our unit directs given as much as possible depending on traffic loading, complexity and availability of airspace to give direct routes. Most controllers will give this as a matter of course. No harm in asking, but bear in mind if the frequency or workload(not always apparrent to pilots) is already high and everyone was to ask all the time, you will overload the rt and maybe the controller.
Every flight is a potential "MAYDAY".
If you call mayday then I have to file paperwork.
The less time you spend on my frequency the less chance you have to make me file paperwork.
As a result, I will do everything in my power to get you off my frequency and out of my airspace as quickly as possible - even if it means co-ordinating direct routes with adjacent controllers.
If you keep asking for direct then I have less chance to be co-ordinating direct for everyone and more chance of copping that mayday so I will not be best pleased with you. Your company colleagues will then be tarred with the same brush and I won't be pleased with them either and then they won't be pleased with you.
Slightly over-simplified, but you get the point?
If you call mayday then I have to file paperwork.
The less time you spend on my frequency the less chance you have to make me file paperwork.
As a result, I will do everything in my power to get you off my frequency and out of my airspace as quickly as possible - even if it means co-ordinating direct routes with adjacent controllers.
If you keep asking for direct then I have less chance to be co-ordinating direct for everyone and more chance of copping that mayday so I will not be best pleased with you. Your company colleagues will then be tarred with the same brush and I won't be pleased with them either and then they won't be pleased with you.
Slightly over-simplified, but you get the point?
More than just an ATCO
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IMHO, If you want it ask...
I'll always give you what I can, I recently moved ANSPs the one I work for now encourages track shortening with gusto, my previous employer frowned upon it and effectively made it illegal (outside SOP) to provide track shortening unless it was to solve an 'immediate' conflict or to improve an arrival sequence.
It never bothers me if you request it; it does bother me if when I say I'm "unable" to provided it that I get questions like "when can I expect it" or "where is the traffic" etc; although since I rarely see a particular airline anymore (white rat on red tail) the 'challenges' are much less frequent.
I'll always give you what I can, I recently moved ANSPs the one I work for now encourages track shortening with gusto, my previous employer frowned upon it and effectively made it illegal (outside SOP) to provide track shortening unless it was to solve an 'immediate' conflict or to improve an arrival sequence.
It never bothers me if you request it; it does bother me if when I say I'm "unable" to provided it that I get questions like "when can I expect it" or "where is the traffic" etc; although since I rarely see a particular airline anymore (white rat on red tail) the 'challenges' are much less frequent.
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Hi Norwegian. There is no policy as such where I work about direct routes. If possible,then some track shortening will always be given,ATC is there to provide a service after all.A lot of the time however it is not possible and for reasons that may not be obvious to the pilot, hence why you may be on a very quiet frequency and wondering why you haven't been sent direct.
Some pilots from various airlines,not just the locos, make it a standard call when first checking in,which can be very frustrating when the frequency is already congested.
If the direct routeing that you get involves cutting a significant corner then co-ordination may have to take place with other sectors or units that otherwise would not have details on your flight,this can take a fair bit of time and effort to organise. No problem in the middle of the night when the European centres are quieter and can organise direct routeings between themselves,difficult during the day with much more traffic,military activity,danger area activation etc. Also, when the traffic is busy, it is better for controllers on busy sectors to keep things standard and simple. It greatly reduces inter sector co-ordination which allows us to concentrate more on shifting the traffic safely.
Use a bit of common sense,if the controller sounds busy then don't use the frequency unless you have to. If the frequency is quiet then by all means ask for a direct route, but don't hassle the controller if the request is refused.
Read Dan Dare's post as well. It's amusing but pretty close to the truth!
Some pilots from various airlines,not just the locos, make it a standard call when first checking in,which can be very frustrating when the frequency is already congested.
If the direct routeing that you get involves cutting a significant corner then co-ordination may have to take place with other sectors or units that otherwise would not have details on your flight,this can take a fair bit of time and effort to organise. No problem in the middle of the night when the European centres are quieter and can organise direct routeings between themselves,difficult during the day with much more traffic,military activity,danger area activation etc. Also, when the traffic is busy, it is better for controllers on busy sectors to keep things standard and simple. It greatly reduces inter sector co-ordination which allows us to concentrate more on shifting the traffic safely.
Use a bit of common sense,if the controller sounds busy then don't use the frequency unless you have to. If the frequency is quiet then by all means ask for a direct route, but don't hassle the controller if the request is refused.
Read Dan Dare's post as well. It's amusing but pretty close to the truth!
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i try wherever possible to send an a/c as direct as i can, especially when its quieter. The temptation to ask certain airlines 'have you prebooked the direct route online, if not i accept credit cards for a nominal charge', is quite high
seriously though, here we are hamstrung by danger area activity, especially on the north sea area. the military are much better now at telling us when the areas are not being used and we can give short cuts for those unused periods.
On the subject of being asked, i don't mind being asked once, ask twice however and i tend to lose my sense of humour
seriously though, here we are hamstrung by danger area activity, especially on the north sea area. the military are much better now at telling us when the areas are not being used and we can give short cuts for those unused periods.
On the subject of being asked, i don't mind being asked once, ask twice however and i tend to lose my sense of humour
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I remain EASILY bewildered by the SOP's of certain airlines with regard to this. I don't offer a direct route one morning....and get asked for it. Next morning I co-ordinate it in advance....and get told "we can't accept less than RAS/RCS" from the same company.
I give up
I give up
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In our company last year, a controller was reprimanded by management for offering direct routings. Now they have to be requested by the aircraft (or offered). Apparently (tongue-in-cheek), the airlines don't want direct routings because they have such sophisticated flight planning equipment.
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Number 2,
It's that old pilot-dispatcher-managment psychosis again. Everybody wants us to do it their way -- whichever one happens to be in charge on that day.
It took a long tme to get it -- and even then it's watered down to where it's almost useless -- but they finally put this in this in the FAA 7110.65.
4-4-6. DIRECT CLEARANCES
a. Do not issue a routing clearance that will take an aircraft off of its flight plan route if the destination airport is included in a ground delay program (GDP), ground stop (GS), or Playbook route, when known, unless operational necessity dictates.
b. EN ROUTE. Do not issue revised routing clearances that will take an aircraft off its flight plan route past the last fix in your facility's airspace, unless requested by the pilot or operational necessity dictates.
NOTE-
Nothing in this paragraph shall preclude a controller from issuing a routing clearance that conforms to a letter of agreement or standard operating procedure within their own facility or between facilities, is required to maintain separation or comply with traffic flow management initiatives.
I've seen Air Force One put back on a pref route (a STAR). They are there for a reason and a million requests to go direct hasn't ever made that reason go away.
BTW, it's mighty ironic to see the RNAV gurus at Communicating for Safety talk about leaving airplanes on the RNAV routes 24/7. Imagine -- an air carrier that can't go direct on the midnight shift because of RNAV procedures and CDAs.
"Free Flight" for all.
Don Brown
It's that old pilot-dispatcher-managment psychosis again. Everybody wants us to do it their way -- whichever one happens to be in charge on that day.
It took a long tme to get it -- and even then it's watered down to where it's almost useless -- but they finally put this in this in the FAA 7110.65.
4-4-6. DIRECT CLEARANCES
a. Do not issue a routing clearance that will take an aircraft off of its flight plan route if the destination airport is included in a ground delay program (GDP), ground stop (GS), or Playbook route, when known, unless operational necessity dictates.
b. EN ROUTE. Do not issue revised routing clearances that will take an aircraft off its flight plan route past the last fix in your facility's airspace, unless requested by the pilot or operational necessity dictates.
NOTE-
Nothing in this paragraph shall preclude a controller from issuing a routing clearance that conforms to a letter of agreement or standard operating procedure within their own facility or between facilities, is required to maintain separation or comply with traffic flow management initiatives.
I've seen Air Force One put back on a pref route (a STAR). They are there for a reason and a million requests to go direct hasn't ever made that reason go away.
BTW, it's mighty ironic to see the RNAV gurus at Communicating for Safety talk about leaving airplanes on the RNAV routes 24/7. Imagine -- an air carrier that can't go direct on the midnight shift because of RNAV procedures and CDAs.
"Free Flight" for all.
Don Brown
