UK Airport ID cards and NATS
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By "Union" do you mean Prospect?
If so, I think I am correct in saying that Prospect seconded and supported the BALPA motion to last years TUC denouncing the Governments plan to introduce ID cards for airside workers - hardly a sign of enthusiastic support for the cards.
However, given Prospects recent track record, a change of mind would NOT surprise me in the slightest
DD
If so, I think I am correct in saying that Prospect seconded and supported the BALPA motion to last years TUC denouncing the Governments plan to introduce ID cards for airside workers - hardly a sign of enthusiastic support for the cards.
However, given Prospects recent track record, a change of mind would NOT surprise me in the slightest
DD
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Razzye
So just what makes you think that the unions support compulsory ID cards?
Or is this simply stirring it to get a reaction?
As you can see from the response by Data Dad, this is not the case. If you had actually taken the time to find out about Prospect Conference, maybe you wouldn't have put your foot in your mouth!
Or is this simply stirring it to get a reaction?
As you can see from the response by Data Dad, this is not the case. If you had actually taken the time to find out about Prospect Conference, maybe you wouldn't have put your foot in your mouth!
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Last I heard on this was the reply to the Epetition regarding A/S permits and the national ID card system. They are doing it any way regardless of the fact that it going to do b0110cks all to increase security.
Better not cost me anything
Better not cost me anything
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National ID Cards are a complete waste of time - a knee jerk reaction to the terrorist attacks in the UK, proposed by a Government who wanted to be seen to be doing something.
Attacks which were carried out by people who would have been eligible to carry the ID card
As stated, Prospect has never supported the introduction - and I've never seen it stated that NATS did, though I could be mistaken.
Attacks which were carried out by people who would have been eligible to carry the ID card
As stated, Prospect has never supported the introduction - and I've never seen it stated that NATS did, though I could be mistaken.
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Well it won't, initially, by the time you come to renew it the cost could be anything up to £300, If you fail to inform them of any changes then you will be fined £1000 per change not informed.
However, Surely the cost to you will be another nail in the coffin of your Civil Liberties.
Wake up and start understanding where this Government has taken the country. Only the East Germans before the wall fell had more state surveillance and intrusion.
The balls in the citizens court. Giving up without a fight is just cowardly. Sleepwalking further into this is not an option.
However, Surely the cost to you will be another nail in the coffin of your Civil Liberties.
Wake up and start understanding where this Government has taken the country. Only the East Germans before the wall fell had more state surveillance and intrusion.
The balls in the citizens court. Giving up without a fight is just cowardly. Sleepwalking further into this is not an option.
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Prospect may be notionally against ID cards, but I've asked their representatives several times now, if I was to refuse to have an ID card, and I was fired as a result would they fight for me? Their response...? A resounding silence.
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SystemsAddict
Prospect will campaign against the introduction of ID cards, and are doing so at the moment. Your question to a rep that if you are required by law to have an ID card, as it will come into force through a bill in parliament, would prospect defend me if I say no to having one is somewhat strange. Whilst Prospect, and I refer to the ATCO Branch, continue to campaign against the cards, it is difficult to defend somone for breaking the law if they are introduced. I would suggest you join the campaign against them by writing to your MP, MEP and supporting groups that are openly campaigning against them such as liberty etc. Like you, I am 100% against them, and see airports as another means to make something we are continuosly told is not compulsory suddenly compulsory to vast swathes of the workforce.
Good luck in the fight against ID cards
Good luck in the fight against ID cards
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Even if it becomes Law if it comes to losing your job because of it, the case would be taken the High court and Europe.
But we are a long way from that Scenario at the moment.
Firstly, The Government have decided that the trials at MAN and LCy will not have any compulsion built in.
The cards will be issued to New starters and 'Volunteers'.
Secondly to make them compulsory will take another act of Parliment. by the time most of this happens the Labour party will be in opposition. All other parties have vowed to scrap the ID card and Database project.
We must ensure however, that pressure is maintained. Both from individuals and Trade Unions.....Word of caution here, Don't assume your National Officers are willing to do much. Any pressure must come from the Grassroot membership.
Whatever happens, don't roll over like the country has to the loss of Civil Liberties in the past. People are trying to overturn a lot of it and there are signs that it is begining to bear fruit.
But we are a long way from that Scenario at the moment.
Firstly, The Government have decided that the trials at MAN and LCy will not have any compulsion built in.
The cards will be issued to New starters and 'Volunteers'.
Secondly to make them compulsory will take another act of Parliment. by the time most of this happens the Labour party will be in opposition. All other parties have vowed to scrap the ID card and Database project.
We must ensure however, that pressure is maintained. Both from individuals and Trade Unions.....Word of caution here, Don't assume your National Officers are willing to do much. Any pressure must come from the Grassroot membership.
Whatever happens, don't roll over like the country has to the loss of Civil Liberties in the past. People are trying to overturn a lot of it and there are signs that it is begining to bear fruit.
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I have been doing my own little bit to protest against ID cards by helping out with various No2ID campaign events. However it looks as though I won't need to be too concerned about this matter in terms of keeping my job, as NATS have decided they no longer have any need of my services and are shoving me gently out the door. For the record though, I will be continuing to agitate against the introduction of ID cards and the whole National Identity Register database.
A last quick rant before I am thrown out for no longer being a member of the Civil Aviation community.
For anyone reading this that thinks that "I have nothing to hide therefore I have nothing to fear"
From http://bastardoldholborn.***********...g-to-fear.html
Who summed it up better than I could ever have.
"I am sick of hearing this.
In every conversation about Ingsoc's latest e-voyeur database plans, someone always comes out with 'If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear' delivered in that smug tone that implies 'I'll bet you're afraid because you're hiding something'. The thought police must be so proud of that.
Yes, I am hiding something. A lot of things. So are you.
Okay then, here's the challenge. If you truly, absolutely believe that you have nothing to hide, if you really believe there is nothing to fear, post your name. Your address. Your NI number and passport and driver's licence numbers. Your bank details along with how much is in each account. Your children's names and ages and where they go to school. Your mother's maiden name and your account numbers for electricity and gas supplies. The name of your mortgage provider.
What's that? Invasion of privacy, you say? Oh, but you have nothing to hide and therefore nothing to fear. Your government has all those details and many more. Every official who feels like it can have a peek. So what's hidden, really? You have nothing to fear, do you?
Ah, but I hear some discontented rumblings. This information should not be handed out lightly. Someone might use it to hijack your life and steal all your money, or take out huge loans and leave you to pay them. All that is true. But you have nothing to fear, because you have nothing to hide, so post away.
Where did you go on holiday? Who went with you? When did you last use your credit card? What did you buy? Who did you phone? Who did you email? Which websites have you visited?
Don't want to answer? Why not? If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear and your government already has all this information anyway. On databases, linked and cross referenced and entrusted to private companies, not all of them UK-based.
It's different though, you think. Your information is safer with the government than with just any unknown blogger. You really believe that? Then name the officials, clerks, office juniors and janitors who have access to that information in your files. You no more know them than you know me, so what's the difference?
There is one difference, in fact.
I won't put your details on a disk or USB stick and leave them around for just anyone to find. In that respect, you can trust me with your details more than you can trust your government.
Nothing to hide? Nothing you want to keep to yourself? Nothing?
It is a true statement in the end. He who has nothing to hide has nothing to fear, but he who has nothing to hide has nothing at all. We all have information we want kept private. We all have passwords and bank details and travel plans we don't want broadcast or left on a train. We all have something to hide."
Regards: S. A.
A last quick rant before I am thrown out for no longer being a member of the Civil Aviation community.
For anyone reading this that thinks that "I have nothing to hide therefore I have nothing to fear"
From http://bastardoldholborn.***********...g-to-fear.html
Who summed it up better than I could ever have.
"I am sick of hearing this.
In every conversation about Ingsoc's latest e-voyeur database plans, someone always comes out with 'If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear' delivered in that smug tone that implies 'I'll bet you're afraid because you're hiding something'. The thought police must be so proud of that.
Yes, I am hiding something. A lot of things. So are you.
Okay then, here's the challenge. If you truly, absolutely believe that you have nothing to hide, if you really believe there is nothing to fear, post your name. Your address. Your NI number and passport and driver's licence numbers. Your bank details along with how much is in each account. Your children's names and ages and where they go to school. Your mother's maiden name and your account numbers for electricity and gas supplies. The name of your mortgage provider.
What's that? Invasion of privacy, you say? Oh, but you have nothing to hide and therefore nothing to fear. Your government has all those details and many more. Every official who feels like it can have a peek. So what's hidden, really? You have nothing to fear, do you?
Ah, but I hear some discontented rumblings. This information should not be handed out lightly. Someone might use it to hijack your life and steal all your money, or take out huge loans and leave you to pay them. All that is true. But you have nothing to fear, because you have nothing to hide, so post away.
Where did you go on holiday? Who went with you? When did you last use your credit card? What did you buy? Who did you phone? Who did you email? Which websites have you visited?
Don't want to answer? Why not? If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear and your government already has all this information anyway. On databases, linked and cross referenced and entrusted to private companies, not all of them UK-based.
It's different though, you think. Your information is safer with the government than with just any unknown blogger. You really believe that? Then name the officials, clerks, office juniors and janitors who have access to that information in your files. You no more know them than you know me, so what's the difference?
There is one difference, in fact.
I won't put your details on a disk or USB stick and leave them around for just anyone to find. In that respect, you can trust me with your details more than you can trust your government.
Nothing to hide? Nothing you want to keep to yourself? Nothing?
It is a true statement in the end. He who has nothing to hide has nothing to fear, but he who has nothing to hide has nothing at all. We all have information we want kept private. We all have passwords and bank details and travel plans we don't want broadcast or left on a train. We all have something to hide."
Regards: S. A.
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ID cards, biometrics, and massive, centralised databases - putting aside civil liberties for a moment, what about the questions:
How do they fail? How often will they fail? How will people respond when they fail?
Because they will. There is probably not one technology that hasn't, and there is no reason to think these are different They will fail due to hacking, carelessness (lost devices, poor password control, use of insecure machines), software errors, computer failures, fraud, forgery...the list goes on, resulting in lost, deleted, corrupt and stolen data. Pretty much any biometric measure or an ID card can be forged very quickly, and they are generally supposed to last 10 years. Finger print scanners have been bypassed with gelatine casts, iris and face scanners with photos.
Even worse, once these are introduced, security people become dependent on them/'complacent', so when they fail, they fail badly, making the whole system even less secure than it was before.
How do they fail? How often will they fail? How will people respond when they fail?
Because they will. There is probably not one technology that hasn't, and there is no reason to think these are different They will fail due to hacking, carelessness (lost devices, poor password control, use of insecure machines), software errors, computer failures, fraud, forgery...the list goes on, resulting in lost, deleted, corrupt and stolen data. Pretty much any biometric measure or an ID card can be forged very quickly, and they are generally supposed to last 10 years. Finger print scanners have been bypassed with gelatine casts, iris and face scanners with photos.
Even worse, once these are introduced, security people become dependent on them/'complacent', so when they fail, they fail badly, making the whole system even less secure than it was before.
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ID Card Database breached:
Memo reveals multiple breaches of ID card database - ZDNet.co.uk
Anyone that thinks these ID cards are a good idea needs their head examined
Memo reveals multiple breaches of ID card database - ZDNet.co.uk
Anyone that thinks these ID cards are a good idea needs their head examined
Thread Starter
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Directly from Prospect
"Whilst we are opposing the compulsory introduction of the ID cards-we are having to advise members to co-operate with their employer if required/instructed,it is a requirment"
I still see no opposition !!!
"Whilst we are opposing the compulsory introduction of the ID cards-we are having to advise members to co-operate with their employer if required/instructed,it is a requirment"
I still see no opposition !!!