Minimum rate of descent, Europe
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Minimum rate of descent, Europe
Being a good PPruNer I've investigated this both here and in google for the last 25 minutes, and despite numerous threads on the topic, there is no answer to my question ... which is ...
Is there a document which states that ATC in Europe require, expect, or appreciate, a minimum rate of descent of 1000 feet per minute, in either en-route, or terminal airspace ?
ICAO says 500fpm for climb or descent and if unable, advise. Fair enough.
But the '1000 fpm' minimum is treated with reverence at my airline. Having also previously been a controller in various airspaces for 10 years it rings no bells with me ... I've never 'expected' a certain rate of descent other than the 500fpm and while its nice to get potential conflicts solved quicker, I've never heard of anyone expecting 1000 fpm.
Mystery solvers welcome ....
Is there a document which states that ATC in Europe require, expect, or appreciate, a minimum rate of descent of 1000 feet per minute, in either en-route, or terminal airspace ?
ICAO says 500fpm for climb or descent and if unable, advise. Fair enough.
But the '1000 fpm' minimum is treated with reverence at my airline. Having also previously been a controller in various airspaces for 10 years it rings no bells with me ... I've never 'expected' a certain rate of descent other than the 500fpm and while its nice to get potential conflicts solved quicker, I've never heard of anyone expecting 1000 fpm.
Mystery solvers welcome ....
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Gone very quiet 
If you've never heard of it ... I'd also be pleased to hear some people say that - as it also answers the question I guess.
Any european atco's here who have even heard of it ? Ta.
If you've never heard of it ... I'd also be pleased to hear some people say that - as it also answers the question I guess.
Any european atco's here who have even heard of it ? Ta.
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Have had similar discussion about the general 500 feet/min rule
1. Do you happen to have an ICAO reference to where this 500 feet / min is written down? (I know its in writing on some SID/STARS but this is not ICAO)
2. Did not hear anything of the 1000 feet rule during my experience from area controlling (fairly limited experience by the way)
I once was of the idea that the 500 feet came from doc7030 but have not been able to confirm.
1. Do you happen to have an ICAO reference to where this 500 feet / min is written down? (I know its in writing on some SID/STARS but this is not ICAO)
2. Did not hear anything of the 1000 feet rule during my experience from area controlling (fairly limited experience by the way)
I once was of the idea that the 500 feet came from doc7030 but have not been able to confirm.
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Hi finallyflying,
I have sent you an e-mail in which I pasted a bulletin.
Hope it is readable and that it is something you find usefull...
Kind regards, learner . . .
I have sent you an e-mail in which I pasted a bulletin.
Hope it is readable and that it is something you find usefull...
Kind regards, learner . . .
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UK AIP states a minimum RoD of 500fpm in UK airspace.
From a flying perspective 1000fpm minimum in an unpressurised aircraft can be very uncomfortable for the passengers. In addition to which piston engined aircraft can suffer shock cooling damage if high rate, low throttle settings (to keep the aircraft below Vne) are asked for. My target RoD in this type of aircraft is between 500 & 750fpm, with 500fpm preferred. 1000fpm is too much and it isn't going to happen.
As an ATCO I take the above into account when controlling, and certainly don't expect 1000fpm.
In addition - more and more terminal airspace units are introducing CDA's (Continuous Descent Approaches). RoD in these cases shouldn't normally exceed 5 x Ground speed. So - anyone doing less than 200Kts ground speed won't be doing 1000 fpm.
From a flying perspective 1000fpm minimum in an unpressurised aircraft can be very uncomfortable for the passengers. In addition to which piston engined aircraft can suffer shock cooling damage if high rate, low throttle settings (to keep the aircraft below Vne) are asked for. My target RoD in this type of aircraft is between 500 & 750fpm, with 500fpm preferred. 1000fpm is too much and it isn't going to happen.
As an ATCO I take the above into account when controlling, and certainly don't expect 1000fpm.
In addition - more and more terminal airspace units are introducing CDA's (Continuous Descent Approaches). RoD in these cases shouldn't normally exceed 5 x Ground speed. So - anyone doing less than 200Kts ground speed won't be doing 1000 fpm.
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Minimum RoD in UK enroute & terminal airspace -500fpm; maximum is -8000fpm.
No minimum RoD in Continuous Descent Approach procedures (terminal areas below Transition Altitude, down to just prior to FADP), expect to use even -100fpm to achieve this profile.
In terminal area holding patterns, maximum RoD is -800fpm I believe but am unable to find the reference now. I suspect it is the design criteria 'max RoD' rather than an operational maximum.
No minimum RoD in Continuous Descent Approach procedures (terminal areas below Transition Altitude, down to just prior to FADP), expect to use even -100fpm to achieve this profile.
In terminal area holding patterns, maximum RoD is -800fpm I believe but am unable to find the reference now. I suspect it is the design criteria 'max RoD' rather than an operational maximum.
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Chilli and Pontius ... thanks for the good info, and ties in with what my line of thinking was. Still no news on the mysterious 1000 fpm.
Anyone from the central european area here to comment, Lon More perhaps, whats the Maastricht view?
Anyone from the central european area here to comment, Lon More perhaps, whats the Maastricht view?
