NATS into Newcastle
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NATS into Newcastle
Heard a rumour today that this could be on the cards.
Can anyone confirm, or is there more chance of Alan Shearer buying a Sunderland season ticket?
Can anyone confirm, or is there more chance of Alan Shearer buying a Sunderland season ticket?
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Actually, I am really hoping that Newcastle doesn't get sucked up by NATS as that would be a first choice unit for me to apply to being a privately funded non-NATS ATC student.
Stay faithful to the proud folk of the North East please Newcastle!
Stay faithful to the proud folk of the North East please Newcastle!
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I think it's the only way things can get back to normal.
Disruption and plummeting morale within the unit, apparently caused by the arport Management, has allegedly caused so many ATCOs to leave that they can no longer provide a fully staffed H24 commitment.
However, NATS usually like to take on not only ATC but also ATC engineering as well which can make it a very expensive contract, equally not having to worry about staffing and running the unit would be a big relief to the Airport Company.
Lurking123 - I'm not sure how you think the service will be degraded, do you think that when the existing staff transfer to NATS or when new staff join they go through a deprogramming process to make them less professional?
Classicwings: Don't worry, you'd have the same opportunity to join NATS as an ATSA at Newcastle as anyone else would under the current regime.
If you were good enough to be trained by NCL as an ATCO, the same will apply regarding your chances of getting a Cadetship with NATS, if you aren't it won't happen.
Disruption and plummeting morale within the unit, apparently caused by the arport Management, has allegedly caused so many ATCOs to leave that they can no longer provide a fully staffed H24 commitment.
However, NATS usually like to take on not only ATC but also ATC engineering as well which can make it a very expensive contract, equally not having to worry about staffing and running the unit would be a big relief to the Airport Company.
Lurking123 - I'm not sure how you think the service will be degraded, do you think that when the existing staff transfer to NATS or when new staff join they go through a deprogramming process to make them less professional?
Classicwings: Don't worry, you'd have the same opportunity to join NATS as an ATSA at Newcastle as anyone else would under the current regime.
If you were good enough to be trained by NCL as an ATCO, the same will apply regarding your chances of getting a Cadetship with NATS, if you aren't it won't happen.
StandupfortheUlstermen
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would make NSL even more attractive when the time comes to sell it off
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Classicwings: Don't worry, you'd have the same opportunity to join NATS as an ATSA at Newcastle as anyone else would under the current regime. If you were good enough to be trained by NCL as an ATCO, the same will apply regarding your chances of getting a Cadetship with NATS, if you aren't it won't happen.
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Classicwings I wish you all the luck in the world. Just a word of caution, unless you have validated your ADI licence you do not have a rating. You have a student licence.
Therefore you will probably still have to convince any unit that you are worth the investment (ie training). And show that you may be a suitable candidate for further courses as the unit dictates.
It is admirable that you have paid for your own rating but units will question why you took that route. Did you apply to NATS or Eurocontrol? If so why did you not get through? Do you have the aptitude to gain the rating?
Getting through the ADC course doe's not provide any guarantees. I don't want you to think I believe you won't make it, but you will have some convincing to do.
Especially somewhere like Newcastle.
Therefore you will probably still have to convince any unit that you are worth the investment (ie training). And show that you may be a suitable candidate for further courses as the unit dictates.
It is admirable that you have paid for your own rating but units will question why you took that route. Did you apply to NATS or Eurocontrol? If so why did you not get through? Do you have the aptitude to gain the rating?
Getting through the ADC course doe's not provide any guarantees. I don't want you to think I believe you won't make it, but you will have some convincing to do.
Especially somewhere like Newcastle.
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Classicwings.
Take heed of The Bear's wise words.
I wish you the best of luck, but you seem to assume that NCL will fall over themselves to employ you when in fact, if you haven't already validated your licence, you realistically are on the same level as an existing ATSA at NCL who has the experience and aptitude to be put forward for all the courses.
Take heed of The Bear's wise words.
I wish you the best of luck, but you seem to assume that NCL will fall over themselves to employ you when in fact, if you haven't already validated your licence, you realistically are on the same level as an existing ATSA at NCL who has the experience and aptitude to be put forward for all the courses.
In addition to the Bears words: once you have passed your rating exams & have your student licence, you will need to commence unit training within 6 months, or will need to undertake an APC (Assessment of Prior Competence) at your own cost. This is likely to involve a written theory test, a practical assessment & an oral board, or verbal assessment, all to ensure you are still at the minimum rating standard: therefore without the assurance of stepping straight into a unit & onto their training plan asap you may well be flushing money down the loo.
Get the job, then get the training, is my advice.
Get the job, then get the training, is my advice.
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Just musing on the factors that would cause an airport like Newcastle to consider putting ATC out to contract. I understand they have employee relations problems at the moment in ATC, but is that translating into retention and recruitment problems as well? Are there other factors?
It'd be an interesting comparison to know what the circumstances at Bristol were which caused the airport to get NATS in.
It'd be an interesting comparison to know what the circumstances at Bristol were which caused the airport to get NATS in.
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I don't know the real reason at Bristol, but I would suggest that it was a straight financial decision.
I suspect that the majority of ATC staff and engineers at BRI were still in the old final salary pension scheme and also on terms and conditions transferred across from when Bristol was local authority run.
This would make the unit quite an expensive beast to run and although expensive in the short term, contracting out in the long term makes economic sense, especially if the radar task can be centralised and relieves the present owners of responsibility for a highly regulated department.
All of that applies to Woolsington and perhaps that's the way the owners at NCL see it.
I suspect that the majority of ATC staff and engineers at BRI were still in the old final salary pension scheme and also on terms and conditions transferred across from when Bristol was local authority run.
This would make the unit quite an expensive beast to run and although expensive in the short term, contracting out in the long term makes economic sense, especially if the radar task can be centralised and relieves the present owners of responsibility for a highly regulated department.
All of that applies to Woolsington and perhaps that's the way the owners at NCL see it.
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but you seem to assume that NCL will fall over themselves to employ you
You will also note from my previous post that (and I quote myself) if I was to
appear for consideration at Newcastle
I am merely very keen to work at Woolsington as I like the airport and the North East in general as I used to live up in Newcastle myself a few years ago. That doesn't automatically guarantee me a job with them, for sure. Every candidate needs to be assessed on an individual basis, and referring to the actual topic of discussion within this thread, who knows, I may not even get the chance to apply to Newcastle ATC by the time I have finished my college course as NATS may have taken over the Unit by then?!?!
Last edited by classicwings; 4th Dec 2008 at 22:56.
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I wish you the best of luck, but you seem to assume that NCL will fall over themselves to employ you when in fact, if you haven't already validated your licence, you realistically are on the same level as an existing ATSA at NCL who has the experience and aptitude to be put forward for all the courses.
Just to further my reply to your post, I could raise the point that whereas a current ATSA employee at EGNT could be recommended for training to become a controller, the advantage that I would have is that I would be approaching them with my student aerodrome licence (and FISO licence) already under my belt ready to be trained up to validation straight away, as opposed to the ATSA. On the flip side of this though, I suppose one could argue the fact that the ATSA could well have the advantage of having more practical experience/familiarity of the unit and of the aerodrome/ ATC procedures in general, having actually worked there.
Anyway, I will cross that bridge when I get to it.
Last edited by classicwings; 5th Dec 2008 at 16:47.
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There are two ways to look at it........
1 If they choose one of their own ATSAs to go forward for training, he/she will have undergone some sort of selection (in the past, a pre-NATS Brizzel used NATS style selection testing) and they will have a good idea as to the candidate's suitability for the job and whether the candidate will get through a course. You on the other hand, they don't know anything about, you are an unknown quantity.
2 You've already taken and passed an approved course, and as I've always said give me someone who's passed a course and I'll give you a valid ATCO.
And before anyone starts harping on, I've never been wrong yet.
1 If they choose one of their own ATSAs to go forward for training, he/she will have undergone some sort of selection (in the past, a pre-NATS Brizzel used NATS style selection testing) and they will have a good idea as to the candidate's suitability for the job and whether the candidate will get through a course. You on the other hand, they don't know anything about, you are an unknown quantity.
2 You've already taken and passed an approved course, and as I've always said give me someone who's passed a course and I'll give you a valid ATCO.
And before anyone starts harping on, I've never been wrong yet.
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Fair enough Standard Noise, I think you have covered yourself pretty well and good there!! When are ATCOs ever wrong hey It is a difficult scenario I could well be faced with. However, referring to the advice as previously mentioned in this thread, I will be seeking potential employers BEFORE I part with any of my cash for my aerordome rating. I aint leaving anything to chance as Im sure you are all aware how much a student licence costs these days. Maybe thats why people keep applying to NATS to get them to pay for their training.
Anyway, getting back to the topic of this thread, what do you think about the chances of NATS taking control of Newcastle??
It is a difficult scenario I could well be faced with. However, referring to the advice as previously mentioned in this thread, I will be seeking potential employers BEFORE I part with any of my cash for my aerordome rating. I aint leaving anything to chance as Im sure you are all aware how much a student licence costs these days. Maybe thats why people keep applying to NATS to get them to pay for their training.Anyway, getting back to the topic of this thread, what do you think about the chances of NATS taking control of Newcastle??