Separation in London City CTR at night
Thread Starter
Separation in London City CTR at night
How is separation managed in the City CTR at night? During the day, lots of helicopters and fixed wing do their stuff over the city VFR using visual separation with the usual excellent support of the Thames controller. But do different separation rules apply when it becomes SVFR? There's not a lot of space for 1000 ft and/or several miles horizontal.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hampshire UK
Age: 70
Posts: 557
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Bookworm,
As you state, at night only IFR and SVFR clearances can be issued in the London City CTR (Class D). Therefore standard separation of 3nm horizontally and/or 1000ft vertically must be applied. However, City Tower can apply reduced separation in the vicinity of the aerodrome when appropriate, and the Metropolitan Police and Helimed helicopters can separate themselves visually, provided that certain criteria are met.
As you state, at night only IFR and SVFR clearances can be issued in the London City CTR (Class D). Therefore standard separation of 3nm horizontally and/or 1000ft vertically must be applied. However, City Tower can apply reduced separation in the vicinity of the aerodrome when appropriate, and the Metropolitan Police and Helimed helicopters can separate themselves visually, provided that certain criteria are met.
Thread Starter
Thanks ATCO Two.
So my usual detail for a daytime sightseeing flight is a VFR transit from Ally Pally to Crystal Palace and then back again. Presumably then, that's much more difficult to accommodate at night, even when City is closed on Saturday afternoon?
So my usual detail for a daytime sightseeing flight is a VFR transit from Ally Pally to Crystal Palace and then back again. Presumably then, that's much more difficult to accommodate at night, even when City is closed on Saturday afternoon?
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hampshire UK
Age: 70
Posts: 557
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Bookworm,
If you arrive outside the peak traffic times, then you stand a fair chance at night on a SVFR clearance. Ally Pally to Crystal Palace on Westerlies is not a huge problem, but on Easterlies it can be much more difficult. When City is closed on saturday afternoons/evenings, you stand an even better chance, depending of course on higher priority traffic in the zone.
Hi BBF,
Thank you for your kind comments. Several Thames and City Controllers read PPRuNe, so I am sure they will appreciate your words as much as I do. Now how about some fam flights with Cityflyer?
If you arrive outside the peak traffic times, then you stand a fair chance at night on a SVFR clearance. Ally Pally to Crystal Palace on Westerlies is not a huge problem, but on Easterlies it can be much more difficult. When City is closed on saturday afternoons/evenings, you stand an even better chance, depending of course on higher priority traffic in the zone.
Hi BBF,
Thank you for your kind comments. Several Thames and City Controllers read PPRuNe, so I am sure they will appreciate your words as much as I do. Now how about some fam flights with Cityflyer?
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Horsham, West Sussex
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'll second BBF's comments. LCY ATC and Thames do a great job and give a high quality service to all in a very stressful and busy piece of airspace. The regular postion reports on VFR traffic is very informative and helps with SA.
And credit to the rotary drivers who excercise such discipline in such an enviroment and always excercise the upmost proffesionalism in assisting ATC and the departing/arriving traffic with separation.
Supramkiv (Cityjet FO)
And credit to the rotary drivers who excercise such discipline in such an enviroment and always excercise the upmost proffesionalism in assisting ATC and the departing/arriving traffic with separation.
Supramkiv (Cityjet FO)
Runway 28 needs the steep approach to clear the East London River Crossing, to the east of the runway and just where the flightpath crosses the Thames. Now this bridge has not been built yet, despite having been planned since long before LCY opened 20 years ago, and is subject to constant yes-no decisions by politicians, but the steep approach is to clear its location if/when it is built. One of the original planning conditions on the airport when first built was it should not compromise this planned bridge.
The bridge will be quite high to allow seagoing ships (still quite a few come up the Thames ths far) to get underneath. For example the sugar refinery to the immediate south of LCY has ocean-going freighters delivering raw sugar cane from the Caribbean. However unlike the bridge on the M25 at Dartford it will not have piers above the bridge deck. If you look to the north as you cross the river approaching 28 (when pax-ing only of course !) you will see some initial signs of construction of approach roads, which have laid unused for many years.
The bridge will be quite high to allow seagoing ships (still quite a few come up the Thames ths far) to get underneath. For example the sugar refinery to the immediate south of LCY has ocean-going freighters delivering raw sugar cane from the Caribbean. However unlike the bridge on the M25 at Dartford it will not have piers above the bridge deck. If you look to the north as you cross the river approaching 28 (when pax-ing only of course !) you will see some initial signs of construction of approach roads, which have laid unused for many years.
