London/Alkin 3D Controllers

[No_Speed_Restriction]

Out of interest, do London controllers who control incoming LCY traffic on the ALKIN 3D mind people asking for high speed approaches (>250kts below FL100) on our initial call?

[anotherthing]

Short answer - No.

If we do not need to stream you, then we will often oblige. If given, it is worth mentioning it to Thames Radar on handover though, even if you have not been instructed to.

[No_Speed_Restriction]

thanks for clearing that up; kept thinking you lot might get sick of people asking you for high speed even though you clear us for the alkin star which stipulates 250 below 100.

cheers

[anotherthing]

It's not a problem even on a busy frequency, especially if it is done as part of your initial check in call

[VectorLine]

Of course, the TC Low controller who has to integrate the traffic with that coming from the North and East might say differently.

[anotherthing]

VL - I answered the question as I am a TC South controller...

Also in my initial answer, if you care to read it, I stated -

If we do not need to stream you...

There is no harm in asking, some controllers might say 'no' regardless of the traffic situation, other, more decent/capable/flexible controllers will assess and use their judgement

[Mister Geezer]

Would the time saving be worth it anyway?

I fly a 146 and we have to be at 250KIAS by FL80 so asking to keep the speed up for a extra couple of thousand feet in the descent is not worth the extra R/T time in requesting it!

You will probably still have to do the Kent scenic tour at 190KIAS so why burn the extra fuel in keeping the speed high for just a couple of extra minutes? Surely it can't be worth the R/T call?

[anotherthing]

Mister Geezer

Obviously it's up to the crew if they want to ask; speaking from an ATCO point of view, I would hope that any ATCO worth his or her salt would say 'no' to the request if it was apparent that there were aircraft ahead that meant anything gained through high speed (however slight), would be negated by vectoring for streaming purposes.

The short answer still remains, 'no, asking is not a probelm'; especially if tied in with the initial call onto the frequency - it won't take up any more R/T time

[tczulu]

Ah,LCY,built on piles and like them a complete pain in thethe arse.Example-ILS needs callibrating,no prob with that,has to be done.Yesterday morning(Sunday),place is closed to traffic til afternoon,part of the terms of its operating licence I believe.Now,one might think that would be an ideal time to carry out the check,but no.Lets wait until late afternoon,the busiest time for inbounds and then start.Result,a/c holding all over the place,not all at published holds,delay not determined so can't give the poor brs at the pointy end any accurate info.In my humble opinion(and I suspect many others including aircrews)a complete and utter f up of the highest order.

[3REDS]

No Speed

Didn't think the 146 could reach 250kts at ANY level

[5milesbaby]

No_Speed_Restriction, I'd say it depends on who's frequency you want to ask on. I'd advise against asking 134.9 as we cannot lift the restriction as we have no idea what anotherthing wants to do with you on 120.175. All we can try to do is transfer you early enough to ask on 120.175 (and normally do) but there is usually a good reason if we don't.

Personally, I hate being asked, its not just the Alkin arrivals, we also get it through GWC inbound to Gatwick, nothing we can do with that one either unless its in the middle of the night..............

5mb

[anotherthing]

A very valid point by 5mb - it's usually a pointless call until you are on a TMA frequency as en-route don't know what we (TC) will want to do with it.

Unfortunately, it's not abundantly clear to crews which frequency is which

[VectorLine]

anotherthing, point taken. I did read your reply but it didn't click that you were from next door.

Your tone of reply, mind you, stinks.

[anotherthing]

Glad to be of service VL - hope you read OPNOT's etc more carefully