Dubai / UAE
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Dubai - Pay Rise or PAYCUT?
For those of us who are still keeping their fingers crossed, or even holding their breaths.......
FORGET any 'Verbal Payrise' (which had to cover at least the inflation) we were told by our Managers........
Dubai Govt. does NOT EVEN have the money to pay the salaries of Govt. Employees, & are negotiating with the Banks to cover for salaries!!!
We are employed by a Private Company, who are in-turn sub-contracted by Dubai Airports....
Dubai Airports....of course another Govt.Entity.......
And, the rumoured paycut seems to be getting louder & louder........
FORGET any 'Verbal Payrise' (which had to cover at least the inflation) we were told by our Managers........
Dubai Govt. does NOT EVEN have the money to pay the salaries of Govt. Employees, & are negotiating with the Banks to cover for salaries!!!
We are employed by a Private Company, who are in-turn sub-contracted by Dubai Airports....
Dubai Airports....of course another Govt.Entity.......
And, the rumoured paycut seems to be getting louder & louder........
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Paycuts
Prowler I wonder who pays you to spread these rumours. I have not heard anything of what you have said so maybe you are closer to Management than I am. I also wonder if you see any benefits by writing this kind of garbage here. Even if it was an inkling true you should keep these rumours to yourself and not do someone else's dirty job!
Whoever motivates you must be very happy!!
Whoever motivates you must be very happy!!
Join Date: Mar 2007
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I'm with Falcon. Such rumours seem designed to do damage and spread fear. Serco ME may not give out many perks, but they give what they say they'll give and every Dubai controller has a contract.
It's in the interests of management and the Dubai government that Dubai remains an ATC unit to aspire to.
It's in the interests of management and the Dubai government that Dubai remains an ATC unit to aspire to.
Join Date: Oct 2002
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To all those considering the BIG move.......be aware that these pages are full of mis-information if not outright lies. Too bad we are doing it to our own.
Dubai, Abu Dhabi and all other Gulf ATC locations are revolving doors, always have been, always will be. If you truly want to work here, you will, provided you meet the requirements. You must be rated, training is not provided. Its a fam. Don't waste everyone's else's time with bs. Different units will accept people with different requirements.
Today, DXB can cherry pick, so be sure you are from a very busy twr or tcu. Abu Dhabi seems more desperate. No third world candidates need apply, sorry. Yes SA is considered worthy, mostly because they stay forever.
Money should not be your priority. Lifestyle should be no.1.
Let me just finish by saying that the desert is different things for different people. For myself, it's been the best career more ever. Best advice for wannabes is to hook up with someone who is here and ask there real hard questions. Get real answers.
GLTA
Dubai, Abu Dhabi and all other Gulf ATC locations are revolving doors, always have been, always will be. If you truly want to work here, you will, provided you meet the requirements. You must be rated, training is not provided. Its a fam. Don't waste everyone's else's time with bs. Different units will accept people with different requirements.
Today, DXB can cherry pick, so be sure you are from a very busy twr or tcu. Abu Dhabi seems more desperate. No third world candidates need apply, sorry. Yes SA is considered worthy, mostly because they stay forever.
Money should not be your priority. Lifestyle should be no.1.
Let me just finish by saying that the desert is different things for different people. For myself, it's been the best career more ever. Best advice for wannabes is to hook up with someone who is here and ask there real hard questions. Get real answers.
GLTA
Join Date: May 2008
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discrimintaion
"No third world candidates need apply, sorry."
Are they recruiting controllers or pleasing so called first world countries?
Is this discrimination by design or discretion?
Whatever it is; it the loss of SERCO/Authorities, so many ANSP are successfully recruiting controllers from these countries.
Are they recruiting controllers or pleasing so called first world countries?
Is this discrimination by design or discretion?
Whatever it is; it the loss of SERCO/Authorities, so many ANSP are successfully recruiting controllers from these countries.
Join Date: Oct 2002
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I don't think it has anything to do with pleasing first world countries, but rather it's a matter of controller experience. If you're the boss, it makes sense to hire controllers who have been exposed to high traffic levels and modern equipment/procedures. (Even if we are sorely lacking in both these areas...but that's another topic.)
It's all supply and demand. Apparently Abu Dhabi can now pick and choose, which is good. As mentioned earlier, the system is not set up to train, but rather to convert. If an arline needs B777 pilots, you hire those with that rating. It's just quicker and cheaper than training a DH8 guy. **** analogy but you get the drift.
I feel for the folks out in left field, but that's just the way it is. Hope this helps.
It's all supply and demand. Apparently Abu Dhabi can now pick and choose, which is good. As mentioned earlier, the system is not set up to train, but rather to convert. If an arline needs B777 pilots, you hire those with that rating. It's just quicker and cheaper than training a DH8 guy. **** analogy but you get the drift.
I feel for the folks out in left field, but that's just the way it is. Hope this helps.
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A bit of positive news for any of those lucky enough to be 'cherry picked' and actually get on a 2009 DXB course, is that rental prices are falling fast.
A 3 bed villa with 2500 sqft in the Springs, was 300k when I arrived last summer, they are now going for 210k right on the allowance, with specualtion that rents will drop much more before the economy rights itself.
On the subject of pay, I third the earlier comments, rumours of a pay cut are absolute bull$hit. A more pressing concern to anyone that wants to come here, is that we are, at the moment a touch overstaffed with trainees and ATCOs for JXB with nothing to do, so there may be no more arrivals in 2009 or not until the last quarter at the earliest!
A 3 bed villa with 2500 sqft in the Springs, was 300k when I arrived last summer, they are now going for 210k right on the allowance, with specualtion that rents will drop much more before the economy rights itself.
On the subject of pay, I third the earlier comments, rumours of a pay cut are absolute bull$hit. A more pressing concern to anyone that wants to come here, is that we are, at the moment a touch overstaffed with trainees and ATCOs for JXB with nothing to do, so there may be no more arrivals in 2009 or not until the last quarter at the earliest!
Join Date: Aug 2006
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@Canoehead
I have been twice to Dubai, did an assesment and was told I would be planned in for 2009. However that is a year ago and I have heard nothing after my last visit. Any idea why?
I have been twice to Dubai, did an assesment and was told I would be planned in for 2009. However that is a year ago and I have heard nothing after my last visit. Any idea why?
Join Date: May 2008
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verbal duel
I did not want to join in any debate, but I felt that I must clear few points raised in the thread.
"You can call it discrimination. In this part of the world they call it good business."
I would say that it is a bad business idea to call people from other continents or even other side of globe and pamper them with good money when you can easily turn east and find good quality of people in your neighbourhood.
previous experience has shown that training standards and english standards vary in some countries and as such some will not validate from those countries.
I think Indians/pakistanis are capable of speaking better Queen's English . Certainly they speak better English than people from many non English speaking European countries.
As such individual assesments are required prior to recruitment for ATCOs not from the approved countries, and when we can pick and choose (even in Abu Dhabi Canoe Head, things are changing) we take the people who do not need individual assessment ahead of those who do.
The approved country is I would say is some sort of monopoly created in the minds of Authorities there. A controller just by virtue that he is from the approved countries do not make him a better/efficient controller than someone who he is not from those handpicked countries by the people who had prevoiusly worked in those countries.
I am sure it wont be long that this myth will be busted.
it is the way it will stay.
You will know the world is looking toward Asia and specially your cricketers.
If you're the boss, it makes sense to hire controllers who have been exposed to high traffic levels and modern equipment/procedures. (Even if we are sorely lacking in both these areas...but that's another topic.)
India is first country in world to have latest Raytheon Autotrac3.
VTBS is having latest Thales system
VABB/WMKK/VTBS/VIDP handles and are exposed to high traffic levels.
It's all supply and demand. Apparently Abu Dhabi can now pick and choose, which is good.
Thats what I am debating someone whom you never gave an opportunity, how can you say that he is no good. I know few Indian Controllers are doing well in Europe IAA/DFS.
I feel for the folks out in left field, but that's just the way it is. Hope this helps.
No need to feel sorry, you know world is turning eastward. Give us a chance to compete with you and then decide and pass judgement. Till than happy monopoly in Middle east.
For other readers I am really sorry to take the discussion in this direction!!!
"You can call it discrimination. In this part of the world they call it good business."
I would say that it is a bad business idea to call people from other continents or even other side of globe and pamper them with good money when you can easily turn east and find good quality of people in your neighbourhood.
previous experience has shown that training standards and english standards vary in some countries and as such some will not validate from those countries.
I think Indians/pakistanis are capable of speaking better Queen's English . Certainly they speak better English than people from many non English speaking European countries.
As such individual assesments are required prior to recruitment for ATCOs not from the approved countries, and when we can pick and choose (even in Abu Dhabi Canoe Head, things are changing) we take the people who do not need individual assessment ahead of those who do.
The approved country is I would say is some sort of monopoly created in the minds of Authorities there. A controller just by virtue that he is from the approved countries do not make him a better/efficient controller than someone who he is not from those handpicked countries by the people who had prevoiusly worked in those countries.
I am sure it wont be long that this myth will be busted.
it is the way it will stay.
You will know the world is looking toward Asia and specially your cricketers.
If you're the boss, it makes sense to hire controllers who have been exposed to high traffic levels and modern equipment/procedures. (Even if we are sorely lacking in both these areas...but that's another topic.)
India is first country in world to have latest Raytheon Autotrac3.
VTBS is having latest Thales system
VABB/WMKK/VTBS/VIDP handles and are exposed to high traffic levels.
It's all supply and demand. Apparently Abu Dhabi can now pick and choose, which is good.
Thats what I am debating someone whom you never gave an opportunity, how can you say that he is no good. I know few Indian Controllers are doing well in Europe IAA/DFS.
I feel for the folks out in left field, but that's just the way it is. Hope this helps.
No need to feel sorry, you know world is turning eastward. Give us a chance to compete with you and then decide and pass judgement. Till than happy monopoly in Middle east.
For other readers I am really sorry to take the discussion in this direction!!!
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Looking East
I think Jat Jet is quite right. ME should look east. Asian controllers are quite cheaper than Western Controllers so they could save quite a big buck if they started recruiting from there. I do not know about training standards (new equipment does not mean better controllers) but if they are the same as some of the crews of certain asian carriers then they leave a lot to be desired. About English, why is it that most asian carriers speak so good Queen's English that they have to say confirm for every instruction they get? Are you sure your Queen's english is better than some non-english Europeans? "not-getting". I think it is a question of averages of good versus not-so good and the overall balance is still in the favor of the latter.
I am sure there are good cricketers down your way but controlling is a bit different don't you think?
I am sure there are good cricketers down your way but controlling is a bit different don't you think?
Join Date: Mar 2007
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The fact is, there is no law against discrimination on the basis of nationality in the UAE. Quite the contrary in fact! The UAE government has a program of "Emiritisation" to encourage more of their own citizens into the workplace.
It may well be that Indian ATCOs could do the job sufficiently well at Dubai or Abu Dhabi, but if the GCAA wishes to grant licences to western ex-pats and locals only, so be it. It's their country and they make the rules, just as India makes rules which, so it seems, will soon see the end of ex-pat flying jobs in India, and which already make it all but impossible for non-Indians to invest in Indian businesses.
Railing on Pprune at the injustice of "western only" hiring practices will do nothing to change the situation.
It may well be that Indian ATCOs could do the job sufficiently well at Dubai or Abu Dhabi, but if the GCAA wishes to grant licences to western ex-pats and locals only, so be it. It's their country and they make the rules, just as India makes rules which, so it seems, will soon see the end of ex-pat flying jobs in India, and which already make it all but impossible for non-Indians to invest in Indian businesses.
Railing on Pprune at the injustice of "western only" hiring practices will do nothing to change the situation.
Join Date: Jan 2009
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New Applications
Anyone know how long it takes for a response to new apps? Applied with GCAA through flightglobal on Monday but no replies yet. Not even an acknowledgment of receipt.
Anyone know numbers they want, expected start?
Anyone know numbers they want, expected start?
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Weylan...
Response time is slow, based on the fact that you only put the application in on Monday, expect weeks rather than days. This is not unusual however, this is the Middle East. 'Island time' is alive and well here 
Not sure on staffing numbers but we must be getting close to capacity soon with training and slots etc.
Rough numbers for the GCAA contract from line controller to Supe monthly income in USD ranges from $15,000 - $17,000 tax free with an annual bonus of minimum 1 month basic salary and a max of 3 and a gratuity. Basic medical cover is included (not dental so if you have false teeth like me...take out private cover!
).
Not included is annual airfares, housing, schooling etc. that is all up to you.
They do assist however with housing rental payments and will pay up to 150,000 AED (UAE dirhams) of your annual rental agreement and put it in their name.
Accommodation here is as rare as snowflakes in the desert in summer but this could improve as the global slowdown starts to impact this part of the world....and yes it has started to even here!
Long and the short of it, it will take time...perhaps a lot of time so if its an urgent departure you need then it might be worth trying to give them a call and chase it up....tell'em The Fox sent you!
Good luck with it
Not sure on staffing numbers but we must be getting close to capacity soon with training and slots etc.
Rough numbers for the GCAA contract from line controller to Supe monthly income in USD ranges from $15,000 - $17,000 tax free with an annual bonus of minimum 1 month basic salary and a max of 3 and a gratuity. Basic medical cover is included (not dental so if you have false teeth like me...take out private cover!
). Not included is annual airfares, housing, schooling etc. that is all up to you.
They do assist however with housing rental payments and will pay up to 150,000 AED (UAE dirhams) of your annual rental agreement and put it in their name.
Accommodation here is as rare as snowflakes in the desert in summer but this could improve as the global slowdown starts to impact this part of the world....and yes it has started to even here!
Long and the short of it, it will take time...perhaps a lot of time so if its an urgent departure you need then it might be worth trying to give them a call and chase it up....tell'em The Fox sent you!
Good luck with it
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Just to avoid confusion, that assistance GCAA provides is not from their pocket but ultimately yours on a monthly basis.
They provide the assistance as the landlords here (thieves actually
) want the whole year up front which of course is not practical and to have to take out a personal loan to pay a years rent is a crock.
Hope that clarifies it a bit.
They provide the assistance as the landlords here (thieves actually
) want the whole year up front which of course is not practical and to have to take out a personal loan to pay a years rent is a crock.Hope that clarifies it a bit.
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Lifestyle
Can anyone comment on the lifestyle there? Do you spend your days off going a little stir crazy or do you need to spend most of that extra cash to keep life interesting?
I've heard clubs are all the rage for expats, is there a long waiting list to get in?
I've heard clubs are all the rage for expats, is there a long waiting list to get in?
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Life in the UAE is largely what you make it...
In Dubai, much depends on whether you're married and have kids. Those with kids tend to spend their days off on child-related activities, much like everywhere else. There are Christian churches which have a particularly strong following among South African controllers and their families.
For single people, there are more bars and nightclubs than anyone actually needs, and there are plenty of activity-based clubs for the non-boozy types. Whether single or married, the restaurant options are plentiful though very expensive at the top end.
Desert driving is very popular and perhaps among the few things most of us can't do at home. If you're going to take advantage of cheap fuel and buy a big 4x4, you may as well use it as intended!
Some sports are, like drinking and eating, more expensive in Dubai than in the west. Golf and shooting come to mind. Expect to pay US$150 or more for a round of golf, and US$5,000 or more for a golf club membership.
It is entirely possible to build a full life in the UAE and even, for some, to envisage staying into retirement or at least for 10 years or more. For some, it's a relatively short-term experience with a choice of enjoying the lifestyle or saving money - doing both isn't as easy as you'd hope! If you are planning on the short-term, say 3 to 5 years, there may be some aspects of life which you'll have to give up for a few years or some that will have to become holiday activities (Ski Dubai is not a replacement for a decent mountain, for example).
If you're a couch potato at home, you'll probably be one here too. If you play rugby, (ice) hockey, cricket or golf at home, you'll probably play them here.
In Dubai, much depends on whether you're married and have kids. Those with kids tend to spend their days off on child-related activities, much like everywhere else. There are Christian churches which have a particularly strong following among South African controllers and their families.
For single people, there are more bars and nightclubs than anyone actually needs, and there are plenty of activity-based clubs for the non-boozy types. Whether single or married, the restaurant options are plentiful though very expensive at the top end.
Desert driving is very popular and perhaps among the few things most of us can't do at home. If you're going to take advantage of cheap fuel and buy a big 4x4, you may as well use it as intended!
Some sports are, like drinking and eating, more expensive in Dubai than in the west. Golf and shooting come to mind. Expect to pay US$150 or more for a round of golf, and US$5,000 or more for a golf club membership.
It is entirely possible to build a full life in the UAE and even, for some, to envisage staying into retirement or at least for 10 years or more. For some, it's a relatively short-term experience with a choice of enjoying the lifestyle or saving money - doing both isn't as easy as you'd hope! If you are planning on the short-term, say 3 to 5 years, there may be some aspects of life which you'll have to give up for a few years or some that will have to become holiday activities (Ski Dubai is not a replacement for a decent mountain, for example).
If you're a couch potato at home, you'll probably be one here too. If you play rugby, (ice) hockey, cricket or golf at home, you'll probably play them here.
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I abstain from this whole thread with the excuse that I am too close.
By the way, the worlds best ATCO's don't have a clue what cricket is!
La la la, please tell Rule III I'm not Heathcliff!!
By the way, the worlds best ATCO's don't have a clue what cricket is!
La la la, please tell Rule III I'm not Heathcliff!!
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Best controllers in the worlddon't have a clue what criket is (Can't spell it, either), don't know nuthin' 'bout rugby, and spend six months of the year in a deep freeze...