Loxley,

I see you haven't responded to my post. Maybe because there is no argument against it?

I'll recap for you.

NSL does not need to be fattened up for a sell of, though a cheaper pension scheme does indeed help this.

All NATS has to do (and if Barron wants to run it properly as a business, he would do), is to walk away from loss making contracts when they expire. It would have nothing to do with selling NSL, and everything to do with making it more profitable for NATS as a whole.

It's not a course of action I would support, but its a feasible one.

Don't expect a huge "For Sale" banner to sell off NSL. As for evidence, its all there to see. First step was station grading to depress salary levels as a long term goal. Training for Aerodromes OR Area to prevent operational staff mobility back to the area side........you have evidence aplenty that management cross over the area-aerodrome bridge with amazing regularity in both directions....when the sell-off occurs they will be across to the safe side en masse. The current Pensions issue.
Remember the descriptive phrase "One NATS Two Businesses"......hardly competent management to have two complete sets of management running in parallel..........UNLESS!!!!!!!!!!!!
What is the nature of the evidence that you require?

I did ask this more than a month ago, and nobody seemed to give an answer.....why would NATS give up the one arm of their business that is able to fully go after profit, instead of being constrained by economic regulation?

Because to get the profit, they would have to tender at prices the host airports would not be willing to pay??

I'm against NATS selling off any part of NSL - I have argued long and hard that to be a 'world leader in ATM' we need the experience of doing the job at the coal face, but until certain contracted airports start making NSL money, why would a supposedly shrewd businessman keep them in his companies profolio?

Potential to make profit is all very well, what with cost pass through etc, but until you realise that potential, it counts for naught.

As the debate and vote approach their climax, NATS watchers gather outside the building and a breathless hush descends. Will it be white or black smoke? Will Barron become pope or made into soap on a rope? What will the photo of the day be if the vote is no? If there is a picket outside CTC, will they be allowed to have cups of latte sent out?

These critical questions and more await an answer





Sorry chaps but in view of all the acrimony I thought a little more light hearted consideration was needed. Plus I can now laugh because I've just confirmed I don't have to fly out this side of Christmas. Was always worried that you chaps and ladies would go on strike and I'd be stranded

FT.com / Companies / Oil & Gas - Shell pension scheme value falls 40%

Wow just where is a massive oil company going to get the money to make up the deficit?

The Shell pension scheme deficit is caused by th eeconomic downturn - a cyclical event which will be reversed within a couple of years.

Pension funds are long term investments - not short term... headlines such as the one linked to by Mr Jones are nothing but scaremongering and sensationalist.

I seem to recall that at the beginning of the pensions brief, we were told specifically that the current financial climate was not an issue to the long term state of the fund

Don't often find myself agreeing with anotherthing on this thread but he's right. The current downturn is an issue but not the issue. UK pension law seems to be a bit more forgiving than Dutch law and allows much more time for deficits to be made up. In addition the Pensions Regulator has issued guidance to Trustees not to panic so provided the deficit is purely as a result of the stockmarket downturn it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

The collective deficit of the UK's final salary pension schemes has shot up by 40% in the past month.

BBC NEWS | Business | Pension scheme deficits balloon



Taxpayer should stage £7 billion pension bail-out of Royal Mail, ministers told
The taxpayer should take on billions of pounds of pension liabilities from the Royal Mail to put it on a sound financial footing, ministers are being told.

Taxpayer should stage £7 billion pension bail-out of Royal Mail, ministers told - Telegraph

At my pension brief the question was raised as to what pay rise we could expect in Jan 2009, the 2 Prospect reps ASSURED us that the August 2008 RPI figure of 4.8% would be the minimum they would achieve, as the August RPI figure is always used to determine the following years pay rise, and it's always a rise of RPI + X% and never RPI - X%.
So what are we all worried about? Don't we trust the UNION?

The best advice is free, and here it is.......... Never trust anyone, except family and close friends

Partial Post Office sell-off to land taxpayer with £7bn bill | News

Achieve or ask for? There is a big difference and I can't believe any union rep would ever assure anyone in such a cast-iron way,especially with the state of the economy.

It is a rumour network though and so a good first attempt to stir things up by rumouroid.

I don't know whether anyone needs cheering up about the downturn in traffic, but the November figures from CRCO show a drop below the 2006 chargeable unit level (note that the NATS business plan is based on the 2008 forecast)!
Sorry about the layout - I haven't mastered tables.

______________2008________2008_______2007________2006
Month________Actual____Forecast_____Actual______Actual
January_____847,791____848,000_____809,012_____755,222
February____796,176____781,271_____745,409_____711,219
March_______883,698____893,728_____852,683_____815,448
April_______894,901____889,037_____848,254_____813,350
May_______1,000,043__1,015,682_____969,034_____930,439
June______1,037,769__1,028,366_____981,307_____936,613
July______1,057,834__1,109,075___1,058,196___1,002,247
August____1,053,242__1,085,350___1,035,402_____989,429
September___995,716__1,029,685_____982,556_____960,797
October_____948,894__1,007,898_____961,667_____928,974
November____762,647____861,784_____822,366_____787,718
December_______________857,829_____829,902_____794,154
TOTAL_______________11,407,705__10,895,789__10,425,611

Don't worry, Nav Charges are not paid in £sterling.......NATS are absolutely coining it at the moment......neck-deep in cash.

Well, nearly right!

Quote:

Basic unit rates are adjusted every month if the national currency of a Member State is not the euro. The monthly unit rate is recalculated by applying an exchange rate between the euro and the national currency. This exchange rate is the average of the ‘Closing Cross Rate’ calculated by Reuters based on the daily BID rate, for the preceding month.

NATS gains in route charge income when the pound is in constant decline (as the income in December,for example, will be based on the exchange rate in November), so there will be some benefit this year. However, a number of our suppliers (of goods and services) are paid in currencies other than sterling.

I wondered if anyone knows when the pension vote result will be published?

I believe all 3 unions should be able to publish results on or about 19th Dec

Doing some sums, assuming that the unit rate is set last month, the flights are counted this month, the bills are sent out next month and they are paid the month after (and the payment is sent to NATS at the then prevailing rate of exchange), I reckon that the route charges income for 2008 might be 2% up on the forecast (but the margin has been rather more than that for the last couple of years - hence the healthy profit). For this to continue in the face of declining traffic we will need the pound to continue sliding - to get a positive result in 2008, it has needed a fall of 21% in the last 52 weeks.