So not a single mention of pensions here. One for the moderators to move to its' own thread please.

Better give Gordon a call then.

Now how will the conversation go?

Yeah well, I'm avery special ATCO with a 100% guarantee of keeping my job. I earn around £90k/year ( band allowing of course) with the chance to do a bit of voluntary overtime to boost the salary if I get a bit short.

The management want to restrict one of the very few un-affected final salary pensions but only if I get a pay rise (which I expect every year) more than RPI+0.5%.

Oh yes, I only work about 180 days a year as well.

I really am a special case-please help.

Love Band4all.

I'll bet he won't be able to hold back the smile, and he doesn't do that often as we all know.

250Kts

Saying that we only work 'about' 180 days a year is a bit misleading.

a - its more
b - if you count hours worked we work in the mid 30's per week... much tha same as anyone else!

Gonzo

As I stated, I did not know what the Heathrow case was. Did EGLL receive anything for when the tower moved??

As I said in my previous post, I'm more than supportive of it, but if these things are out in the open it does a couple of things...

a. Stops the rumour mill and gets the facts out there... there is nothing like a rumour or two to foster ill feeling between units, more often than not ill-founded (as per when Talloway thought TC received some payment for either training on new kit and/or our move).

b. It might help others in a similar situation secure some payment

Yes, we got a coffee, tea and soup vending machine that is now free to use, as opposed to 10-15p a pop.

Brown:

"WTF? Millions of voters getting their summer holidays ruined for the sake of £50m pa?"



The government is admitting net borrowing will be £118bn in 2009/10 so does anyone really believe that those millions of votes would be put at risk in an election year for the sake of such a relatively tiny sum?

The idea is utterly ludicrous!!!!

Whats 'scientific' about a poll anyone who has access to the Wide World Internet Web Thingie (nearly the whole world) can vote on?

BD

Old chap I honestly think you have no sense of humour. Not everything on this" rumour" site is for real. Lighten up, unless of course the poll is worrying you? Poll Results latest

PS I keep getting you mixed up with eglnyt

PPS It's actually quite worrying that you think the "poll" was intended to be scientific and not just a bit of fun

MERRY XMAS

Ok how about 181 attendances for a 24 hour unit? Close enough?

True enough BD.

The NATS forum poll however, whilst subject to the vagaries of sampling size, still shows around 2-1 against the proposal.

Ah, but there is actually a subtle link. People who perceive that NATS are shafting them over their pension are very unlikely to want to continue to provide goodwill or to continue to sell themselves short. This will have a potential impact on service delivery and project delivery in the future and NATS might find itself struggling to provide the everyday manpower it needs to satisfy its management bonuses and the needs of its masters.

250Kts

still doesn't address the hours of atendance issue though... same amount of hours, just squeezed into less days

Gonzo

Thanks for that - there had been rumours flyng around on PPRuNe and at other units that you guys got a 'sweetener' by way of a cash bung.

I don't care either way but when things, true or not, are kept secret/not clarified - it does sometimes get other people who face similar experiences a bit worked up... it does senior management no end of good if the coalface workers bicker or whinge at each other!

Can't believe you get free drinks though - might give up my second sector now until TC is given equal treatment!!

Because lots of our shifts became longer (more early starts with the same core finish time, more late stays with the same core start time), we're working more than the target hours per week, so we generated TOIL from our WP automatically for the first two years until the OR was raised. We had the option to sell that back.

I guess that's what the 'bung' came from.

Oh, and one is a tea drinker, so one has not sampled the other offerings, but one classes the free tea as slightly more palatable than what one assumes horsepiss to taste like.

A sense of perspective require methinks.

The government is borrowing massively to help make sure people can eat, keep warm and have a roof over their heads.

An ATCO earning 3 to 4 times the national average wage whinging about the detail of his/her pension - when it will still be more than some working families live on collectively - is not going to have the politicians rushing to "save" them.

Do you honestly think that in a midst of a deep recession, when thousands are losing their jobs every week, people will vote out a government because their flight to Dubai for a golfing weekend got cancelled? As has been hinted at here already, public sympathy for the Porsche-driving controller will not be high.

The government is borrowing massively in an attempt to keep itself in with a slim chance of winning the 2010 election. Why do you think many of the mortgage and tax proposals either run until 2010 or start then?

Labour would look at potential ATC disruption through a prism of its GE prospects.

Me Me Me Me,

it's all realtive, one of the things that attracts people to NATS is the pension, in fact the pension is the thing that stops a lot of people leaving NATS and going abroad.

ATCOs get paid well because they do a difficult job with huge responsibilities - pensions need to amount to a decent percentage of final earnings to allow one to live in the manner one has been accustomed to.

I worked hard to get where I am today, at school, in my first career, and with NATS. I get paid a commensurate wage for what I do.

I don't care if Jo or Josephine Bloggs who dicked about in school leaving with no qualifications ends up stackng shelves for £12k a year.

They should have tried harder at school. For the vast majority of people, things are not handed to us on a plate, we earn them. That includes a good pension, even if it is more As for the governement, they probably don't give a stuff about ATCOs - but would be qworried about the potential damage to the economy.

As for Porsche driving ATCOs - again, they got where they are today through application and hard work. I don't really care about jealousy from Joe Public. (And I don't have a Porsche, just a very modest Japanese car).

Gonzo -

See - it's amazing how rumours start and they can be very insiduous. Free horse piss is still free though... probably a delicacy somewhere in the world!

I don't grudge a penny of salary/pension that any ATCO receives. It's a hard job and is remunerated accordingly.

My point is that, whether an ATCO retires on a pension of £30k or £32k a year is not exactly topping the billboard charts of national priorities in a time of deep recession, rising unemployment and negative equity. Attempting to make it so, would be both unsuccessful and unpopular.

I'm not dismissing the issue - I voted no to the proposals on offer... I just seek a little realism with it.

Your tone of indignation/outrage suggests one who is partial to a degree of conspiracy theory in everything.

If they made massive spending comittments that went far beyond their current electoral remit, would you not be critical of that too?

Of course they want to be re-elected. Yes, the current crisis is helping their chances. Why? Because they are actually trying to do what they can to fix it. They might well be p*ssing into the wind... but at least it's better than the standard political huffing and puffing with very little action that we've all become, sadly, used to.

Me Me Me Me

Understood

Though I think that anyone contemplating industrial action (if it ever got that far) must be aware that they will not get public sympathy. Especially once the management team let slip that ATCOs get paid up to £x per year.

At the end of the day, I will fight (within the framework of legal correctness) for what I believe is right (trying to balance what I think is best for my pension, my colleagues (present and future) and NATS as a cimpany)- not too bothered about public perception, after all, why care about what the public thinks about any of NATS employees when the public most likely don't have a clue who NATS are or what ATC is!!

I for one don't give a toss about whether we have public sympathy or not in the event of any industrial action. The public don't pay my wages, not anymore anyway....no doubt somebody will now come up with a smart comment about how the public pays the airlines, and the airlines pay us....makes no difference. NATS are PPP, nothing to do with taxpayers money anymore.

No doubt Barron would mount an all out press offensive disclosing details about the amount of time off we get, how much we get paid etc. He will also, no doubt, neglect to mention his whopping pay rise last year, the DB9, the total and utter spunkage (yes, I just made that word up) of money on needless initiatives, award ceremonies and Starbucks HQ. He'll blame the whole thing on (in no particular order) financial downturn, airlines going bust, Osama Bin Laden, greedy Porsche-driving ATCOs etc etc etc.

Am I right in thinking that it would be up to the Unions to counter any such management propaganda?