Grass cutting inside the rwy strip

[slowclimber]

I'm an ATCO at a UK airport handling all types of aircraft, microlights to 747s. Airport ops have a habit of doing the grass cutting during the busiest parts of the day, rather than the quietest, and ATC allow cutting to take place right up to the runway edge unless the aircraft using the runway happens to be a 'jet', when the grass cutting bloke is told to move away from the runway edge.

For my part, I feel very uncomfortable having a vehicle and personnel with (as far as I can tell) no awareness of the traffic situation around them working inside the runway strip and up to the edge of the tarmac while aircraft are landing and departing, but to disagree with the practice would seem to go against unit habit. What grass cutting procedures do others have at their airports? Would you be OK with the situation described?

SC

[call100]

At my airport the grass cutters start work at 5am during the cutting season and work up to the edge only when NO traffic is departing or landing (regardless of type). They finish when the morning rush begins....
Our Grass is cut by contractors but they are very good on the Airfield and trusted. ATC would still not let them into the strip during operations...
Seems a bit odd at your place. What if Q400 or the like were operating? Are you saying that even then they work up to the edge????

[betterfromabove]

Grass-cutting

As a pilot, rather amused to read this post...

Used to fly from an ATC-controlled grass airfield near Paris that would be CLOSED for grass-cutting. And yes, they had two runways...

Remember waiting for about 3 hours for this guy to get done while we sat sitting on our hands for a x-channel trip. Requests to the (usually very helpful & friendly) ATC unit to ask this guy to stop for simply the time to depart were futile. They said they had no control over the tractor....

Bureaucracy gone mad...

Now, knowing France better now, I would now just wander over to the tractor (perfectly safe thing to do of course, because the airfield is SHUT at this point...) & offer the guy some euros for "an early lunch break...."

Strange to hear this nonsense goes on in the UK as well....not Hurn is it by any chance?!?

[LTN ATCO]

Grasscutting

I'm grass cutting today! Tractor moves in and out of the rwy strip on my instruction between every movement, of any a/c!!
Very good guys, switched on listening out, can vacate in 30 sec and happy to do bit by bit when they can. Usually get them to vacate when inbound is at 5 miles.
They are airport ops guys doing it so are used to the rwy and said ops.

[L'aviateur]

Was at Durham Tees Valley last week in a C150 and was asked if happy to takeoff whilst grasscutting on the runway edge was taking place. Although heard the ATC clear them out for the departure of a Thomson jet a little later on.
I did strike me a little odd, as this is the first time i've come across this.

[vancouv]

I was taxiing out once and heard another plane being passed his taxi clearance which included a warning about grass cutting taking place. The pilot read back his clearance and added 'Roger the grass cutter'

To which ATC replied quick as a flash 'You can try but he might not like it!'

[Wojtus]

I'm grass cutting today! Tractor moves in and out of the rwy strip on my instruction between every movement, of any a/c!!
Very good guys, switched on listening out, can vacate in 30 sec and happy to do bit by bit when they can. Usually get them to vacate when inbound is at 5 miles.
They are airport ops guys doing it so are used to the rwy and said ops.

Exactly the same here. Very good cooperation with tractor driver. He's to vacate the strip even if it's helicopter landing on opposite threshold. No sorry, hard ICAO rules.

[2 sheds]

SC

Can well understand how standards get reduced to allow this. Put your foot down and just pose the question to any management objecting... "what exactly is the purpose of the runway strip?"

[tribekey]

Slowclimber may or may not be talking about Hurn. regardless, that's exactly how it's done there. Grasscutter moves out of strip for any aircraft the controller asks him to,usually large jets etc. The topic has been raised many times with management and S.R.G. over the years and no-one has ever expressly forbidden it. Seems to me that it will only be judged to be illegal following an incident involving the tractor/aircraft etc. If you happen to be the controller on duty, god help you.

[vintage ATCO]

Can be OK within the Runway Strip but outside the Cleared and Graded Area for movements. Temporary obstacles are permitted within the strip but outside the CGA if notified. What's in your Safety Management System?

Anything less, put your foot down.

[Atcham Tower]

Risky. Have you ever seen a light aircraft with a student pilot suddenly veer off a runway for no apparent reason? I have on quite a few occasions, which is why I would never allow grass cutting inside the cleared and graded when ANYTHING is landing or taking off. I don't care what SRG and the management says is safe. Corporate manslaughter springs to mind .. but then the controller would no doubt get it in the neck first.

[52 North]

From 168:

"When there is a temporary obstacle within the runway strip but outside the area to be cleared and graded, the continued use of the runway may be permitted subject to the pilots being notified of the obstacle. Every effort should be made to remove the obstacle as soon as possible."

Think that last sentence is key, if the obstruction is mobile, I keep it out of the strip.

We generally grass cut from 0600-0800, mainly training flights at our place so they don't normally get affected.

52N

[criss]

Since when is management setting separation rules?

I had a small bizjet slid while vacating at the far end of +3.5km long runway. He was physically outside the runway, but not in a safe distance, and unable to continue on his own. The runway got closed and we had to switch to single runway ops until it was towed away.

[Skyjuggler]

I worked once at a station with a similar setup. Grass cutter would cruise along the edge of the runway, facing the landing traffic. As they turned onto final approach, he'd mosey off and return once they'd passed. No radio comms, nothing!! I used to get the fire dept out and tell him to stop, regardless of fights with my line manager about it. At the end of the day, someone crashes into him when he;s within 50m and who's going to take the fall. The law is clear, and if you'll be standing alone if something happens...
My 2c

[terrain safe]

Interesting. At the airport I work at the grass cutters listen out on the radio and move out of the way when anything is using the runway. They cut towards the landing/departing traffic and work in teams to get it done quicker. All been haz analed etc. They work on their own lookout. Been done this way for years otherwise about 100 calls an hour to move them out and back between movements. Really good guys too.

[Pera]

You are correct. The tractor should not be there. There are rules which allow workers on foot into the runway strip clear of the sealed surface under certain conditions, however not a tractor.

It can be hard to change entrenched rule breaking. I would approach your direct supervisor and keep going up the chain until you can get something done. Use outside agencies if it's not getting changed.

In the meantime, if the tractor is monitoring your frequency, tell him to vacate, if he's not, then use a recorded line to ask your gnd controller to vacate him. At least it's recorded.

If the tractor is still there I'd be using the phrase, 'cleared to land at pilots discretion' and make sure that notification of the tractor was on the ATIS or give traffic.

You might be surprised how many people agree with you if you start a discussion in the brew room. Good luck.

[Tarq57]

There are proscribed standards that should be followed in this sort of situation, and the regulatory authority is the agent responsible for proscribing them. Usually they are what ICAO has recommended/required as a standard.
Management/the aerodrome license holder should have an interest in making sure these standards are followed. If they ain't, you have a bit of a problem.
First, you need to find out what the applicable standard is, so you can be sure of your ground if you ever have to argue it out.
Then it's your choice as to how to apply it.
I don't have to engage the cynical centre/right-brain to tell you that if it all goes wrong one day, no matter what the "custom" is, someone will be looking for someone else to hang.

So, "someone-else", what're ya going to do?

If it was me in your shoes, my first approach might be to ask the union, maybe the technical director (if you have one, or an equivalent.)

[slowclimber]

Many thanks for a lot of very informative replies. Prefer not to say which airfield I'm referring to, but I'm glad to find that I'm not the only person whose buttocks are clenching at the scenario I described

I have had aircraft leave the paved surface onto the grass which tends to concentrate the mind on things like obstructions, and I've also had my concerns about the level of distraction caused by vehicles and personnel on and around the runway at busy times when their tasks could be scheduled for much quieter periods.

Will be taking this up with management. Thanks again.