LHR ground controllers
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
From: Hamburg
Thanks 
1. I was always wondering, why all pilots have to confirm the aircraft type on initial contact with delivery. I thought they have a FPL with the acft on it and at least, they can see the acft out of their window?!
2.A friend, airbus pilot, told me last week, that he was a bit confused with a controller instruction at LHR: "XXX, clearance correct, HOLD SHORT and contact Ground on XXX.XXX.
Is that standard phraselogy at Heathrow. If so, why?!
1. I was always wondering, why all pilots have to confirm the aircraft type on initial contact with delivery. I thought they have a FPL with the acft on it and at least, they can see the acft out of their window?!
2.A friend, airbus pilot, told me last week, that he was a bit confused with a controller instruction at LHR: "XXX, clearance correct, HOLD SHORT and contact Ground on XXX.XXX.
Is that standard phraselogy at Heathrow. If so, why?!
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
From: LHR/EGLL
(a trainees answer)
Confirming the a/c type is to check we have the right type on the strip in front of us, its a mandatory requirement in our operating manual. I can see where the 'out the window' thought comes from, but you can't see ALL the stands from the delivery position. So the verbal confirmation from the pilot helps. The strips aren't often wrong, but if they were and we didnt check etc etc...
As regards holding short - I personally have heard a lot of pilots readback that they will hold short of a holding point such as LOKKI, however we do have regular clearance limits that are on one taxiway short of another (Bravo short of Foxtrot) etc. We also state 'hold short' when transferring to tower for runway crossings.
I a) hope I am correct (others more experienced may confirm or deny this) and b) hope it has answered the question
Confirming the a/c type is to check we have the right type on the strip in front of us, its a mandatory requirement in our operating manual. I can see where the 'out the window' thought comes from, but you can't see ALL the stands from the delivery position. So the verbal confirmation from the pilot helps. The strips aren't often wrong, but if they were and we didnt check etc etc...
As regards holding short - I personally have heard a lot of pilots readback that they will hold short of a holding point such as LOKKI, however we do have regular clearance limits that are on one taxiway short of another (Bravo short of Foxtrot) etc. We also state 'hold short' when transferring to tower for runway crossings.
I a) hope I am correct (others more experienced may confirm or deny this) and b) hope it has answered the question
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
From: London
Is your second part of the question referring to GMP too? The phraseology would be to "hold position, contact ground on..." This is new(ish) phraseology to prevent aircraft pushing back without a clearance.
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
From: LHR/Surrey
Another thing re a/c type.. Sometimes operators will change an aircraft used for a certain flight if one goes tech for example, and forget to refile.. so the flight plan has the wrong type on it hence the requirement to check.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
From: Scotland
HHI OPS Wrote:
Whilst I don't work at Heathrow - even at smaller airports it happens! My most recent one involved an Irish registered 737 who were behind schedule and had a "tight" CTOT. In the ensuing investigation it seems that having received their "ATC Departure Clearance" they interpreted that as also push/start clearance - which was not the case.
DD
I can't imagine why a pilot crew should start the pushback without any clearance
DD
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: location, location
Absolutely agree with Data Dad. We’ve had several unauthorised pushbacks (not at LHR but another London airport) and now use that phraseology. What can add to the confusion is certain operators (often the German ones) for whom ‘start’ is when they receive their clearance, although they are not in fact starting their engines or ready to push.
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
From: ASBO Central
Another London airport, it happens many many times. Either just after airways clearance has been recieved, or you just look up and someone is merrily pushing back on a whim. Any extra phraseology, although seemingly unnecessary is worth it if it stops an unauthorisde pushback.
Joined: Jun 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATCO
Posts: 271
Likes: 23
From: LONDON England
Experience shows us that some pilots think that start approval from GMP implies Pushback approved too. It may come from operating at smaller airfields where "push and start approved " and Clearance delivery are issued by one controller doing ground with no GMP position.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 503
Likes: 0
From: London Under EGLL(LHR) 27R ILS
To my Knowledge, Most Clearance are given by Data Link now right?
Still got a Clearance DEL but some or most Clearances are done by data link right? Same at EGKK as well?
Regards,
R..
Still got a Clearance DEL but some or most Clearances are done by data link right? Same at EGKK as well?
Regards,
R..
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 4,432
Likes: 33
From: LHR/EGLL
I'd guess maybe 50-60% of traffic use DCL/PDC. However, 121.975 is also the Ground Movement Planner frequency, so all a/c should call it to report ready for push.
We have had many instances of a/c receiving their clearance via DCL/PDC and switching straight over to Ground to request pushback.
We have had many instances of a/c receiving their clearance via DCL/PDC and switching straight over to Ground to request pushback.
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
From: Farnham
We have had many instances of a/c receiving their clearance via DCL/PDC and switching straight over to Ground to request pushback.