Are We All Providing Same Standard Of ATC Worldwide ???
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Do you really believe that "enemy" is waiting to hear combat formation on frequency?
ATCO: TOMCAT 01, Good morning,ACC radar, Set squawk 3421
PIC: TOMCAT 01 squawk 4321
ATCO: TOMCAT 01 negative,squawk 3421
PIC: TOMCAT01 squawk 3421 coming down
ATCO: Identified, turn left heading 320 ,vectoring for separation
PIC: TOMCAT 01 turning left heading 320, could you give us QNH
ATCO: TOMCAT 01,QNH is 1013
PIC: TOMCAT 01 QNH is 1013
ATCO: Correct,now clear of traffic,radar vectoring for separation is terminated,position 10 Nm north east of VOR ,own navigation direct to OBJECT!
PIC: TOMCAT 01 squawk 4321
ATCO: TOMCAT 01 negative,squawk 3421
PIC: TOMCAT01 squawk 3421 coming down
ATCO: Identified, turn left heading 320 ,vectoring for separation
PIC: TOMCAT 01 turning left heading 320, could you give us QNH
ATCO: TOMCAT 01,QNH is 1013
PIC: TOMCAT 01 QNH is 1013
ATCO: Correct,now clear of traffic,radar vectoring for separation is terminated,position 10 Nm north east of VOR ,own navigation direct to OBJECT!
Solid air force background plus 10+ years of experience as civil ATCOs at different places ,different countries, during difficult times
Paranoid Yanks,
Why don't you stop invading countries, then there might not be a security issue.
How can an ATCO that has passed security checks in a country that happens to support your country in the wars it faces, still not have the right to work in the USA?
Why don't you stop invading countries, then there might not be a security issue.
How can an ATCO that has passed security checks in a country that happens to support your country in the wars it faces, still not have the right to work in the USA?
In any event, disregarding our obvious difference of professional opinion about security, it seems a moot point. Anyone with that much distaste for the U.S. Govt would obviously never be a good fit as an employee of same. And it wouldn't take a Major Burns to figure that out.
"Cheers".
Join Date: May 2007
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Mr Vector,
Maybe the wrong day to discuss this however what does a belief in a government have to do with controlling airplanes? Governments come and go, policies change, but at the end of the day we do the same job. I could not care a less where a military aircraft is going, he has a job to do and that is that.
I don't know how much you know out side quite an insular country but terrorism is not new and most of us have lived with it all our lives. If we let it control us, then they will win.
God bless, we will remember September 11th.
Maybe the wrong day to discuss this however what does a belief in a government have to do with controlling airplanes? Governments come and go, policies change, but at the end of the day we do the same job. I could not care a less where a military aircraft is going, he has a job to do and that is that.
I don't know how much you know out side quite an insular country but terrorism is not new and most of us have lived with it all our lives. If we let it control us, then they will win.
God bless, we will remember September 11th.
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Force,
I understand your point, and while I have only had the pleasure of visiting Europe once for two weeks, and Mexico once or twice too often, your point is well taken. All I'm trying to point out is that most U.S. Controllers are Federal Government employees, and some of us work quite closely with our military units over here. In fact, the U.S. military seems to slowly be getting out of the ATC business, and turning it over to civilian DOD and FAA controllers. As such, the Federal Govt is, for better or worse, very picky about who they hire, or even let visit our facilities nowadays. Paranoid is probably not too strong of a word. I just don't see that changing soon in our present political environment, that's all.
As I said in my original post, Personally, it would be very interesting to work with some folks with different backrounds.
Thanks for your sentiments.
I understand your point, and while I have only had the pleasure of visiting Europe once for two weeks, and Mexico once or twice too often, your point is well taken. All I'm trying to point out is that most U.S. Controllers are Federal Government employees, and some of us work quite closely with our military units over here. In fact, the U.S. military seems to slowly be getting out of the ATC business, and turning it over to civilian DOD and FAA controllers. As such, the Federal Govt is, for better or worse, very picky about who they hire, or even let visit our facilities nowadays. Paranoid is probably not too strong of a word. I just don't see that changing soon in our present political environment, that's all.
As I said in my original post, Personally, it would be very interesting to work with some folks with different backrounds.
Thanks for your sentiments.
ATCO94 asked
Well, I volunteer to travel the world to investigate this although it may take a while. Just need someone to fund this investigation... ICAO, IATA, Boeing, Airbus, NASA, UN, any takers!!
Are We All Providing Same Standard Of ATC Worldwide ???
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Anyone with that much distaste for the U.S. Govt would obviously never be a good fit as an employee of same.
ATC Standards
Though the comments and subterranean political issues are interesting, I would find it interesting if this thread could creep back to discussing the original question – though I do wish I could’ve joined Verc in his short recess from the Sand Box.
So, in terms of providing the same standard worldwide, my comment is, “Not even close.” Of course there are observable differences twixt each controller, and sometimes what appear to be significant differences in standards between otherwise similar ATC units, even in countries or jurisdictions with “mature” aviation systems, philosophies and infrastructure.
Having said that, the pressing issue in terms of worldwide ATC is levels of safety in certain geographic areas. The situation is entirely comparable to that of aircrew and air operator safety levels in those same areas. I.E. In those parts of the world where the resources and the culture (meaning corporate and regulatory cultures) are weak or non-existent, the situation is dire. In fact in those places where the problems associated with luck of funds, corruption, training, equipment, etc exist, they are usually worse in terms of ATC than flight ops. Why? ATC expertise in the regulatory realm is less available; ATC audits and auditors are far fewer; and ATC is most often a lesser priority than air carriers and pilots, regardless of resources.
As someone who has been involved in ATC on four continents I can tell you the levels of ATC provided at each end of the scale are as far apart as Venice Beach and Jeddah.
Grizz
So, in terms of providing the same standard worldwide, my comment is, “Not even close.” Of course there are observable differences twixt each controller, and sometimes what appear to be significant differences in standards between otherwise similar ATC units, even in countries or jurisdictions with “mature” aviation systems, philosophies and infrastructure.
Having said that, the pressing issue in terms of worldwide ATC is levels of safety in certain geographic areas. The situation is entirely comparable to that of aircrew and air operator safety levels in those same areas. I.E. In those parts of the world where the resources and the culture (meaning corporate and regulatory cultures) are weak or non-existent, the situation is dire. In fact in those places where the problems associated with luck of funds, corruption, training, equipment, etc exist, they are usually worse in terms of ATC than flight ops. Why? ATC expertise in the regulatory realm is less available; ATC audits and auditors are far fewer; and ATC is most often a lesser priority than air carriers and pilots, regardless of resources.
As someone who has been involved in ATC on four continents I can tell you the levels of ATC provided at each end of the scale are as far apart as Venice Beach and Jeddah.
Grizz
