Jumping from RAF Mil to NATS/ Civil controlling

[261_p]

Ok first off i'm aware this isnt the first time this topic has been raised!!

Here goes,

When is the best time to jump ship from military to civvy controlling?
Does the level of experience gained through working RAF make any difference when entering civ control world?

Am a fully endorsed Terminal controller (Twr/RA/Dir/LARS/PAR etc..) and there is a chance i'll get a Supervisors ticket before the end of this tour, also am likely to go to Area at Prestwick for next tour (if the deskie holds up his end of the bargain!) and can reasonably expect to get an LEO ticket there.

1. Is it a better choice to go down the NATS or Cwmbrann route?
Cwmbrann courses for Twr and RA cost about £30K am I right?

2. If i had a choice I would like to live in the North East/Yorkshire/Humber area, NATS dont seem to have much in this area so would cwmbrann be best? and do non-NATS towers (LBA,DONC,HUMB,DTV,NEWC etc) prefer NATS trained people?

2. Does anyone know of people getting controlling jobs in Aus or NZ after mil service? just a thought!

Enough Questions for now I think!!

Thanks

[intherealworld]

There's a fair few mil guys off to greener pastures getting some fairly good deals at the mo.

[niknak]

I'm not being rude, but be aware that your Mil' experience counts for little when you are doing the civvi' courses, it's best to cleanse your head of Mil procedures and accept what you are being taught wherever you go.

To answer your questions:

1. If you are accepted by NATS, they pay for your training and pay you a minimal salary whilst you are at the college. With your background, common sense may prevail and they might stream you into the specialisation you prefer and not what the personnel bods/number crunchers say is required at the time.
At Cwmbran or ASTAC, you choose which courses you want, (and I would recommend APP as well as ADI/APS as it's still a requirement at many non NATS airports - although this may change), but you pay for everything, right down to the pencils and paper.
The cost for ADI/APS is around £30K and you don't get paid a bean, the additional, and biggest risk with this route is that if you fail the course you don't get your money back.

2. Rather an odd question - a licence is a licence and the CAA courses are all taught to the same standards wherever you go to train, so to answer your question, no, non NATS airports don't give a stuff where you are trained.

Your competition for a place at non NATS airports will be fairly substantial, (from their own staff who they've sent on courses to become ATCOs).
In your shoes, I would approach a few airports where I'd like to work, tell them I am funding the courses and ask them for a job when qualified on the basis that they fund some or all of the costs.
Make sure you've thoroughly researched the airport first, the future at places like HUY isn't exactly rosey and remember (I only say this because a small minority of ex Mill ATCOs find it a shock) that in the civvi world you start at the bottom of a big heap and no one will call you Sir.

[Monkey Madness]

FYI...

The Cwmbran college prices are:

UK Basic - £3,985
UK ADI - £12,475
UK APP - £10,325
UK APS - £15,595

These were correct at the time I was given them and valid for 2008. Ex-mil ATCO's can apply for exemptions to sit the Nav and Met exams/portion of the Basic course (thus saving some cash/time). You can also claim back part of your exam fees thru existing service leavers initiatives.

Watch this space though as the Govt may agree to pay for your courses as part of the white paper that came out last month (as long as you don't have a degree or have done a-levels whilst within the service!)

Hope that the above is of some help.

MM

[Vulcan Lover]

Getting into Civil ATC

I am an ex-RAF ATCO with full UK CAA ratings.

One option is to look at military bases which use civil ATCOs.

Wattisham is a good example. Your military experience is valuable and if you have one CAA rating on your licence (aerodrome or radar), one of the bidders for the contract (Safeskys) will employ you, validate your rating and then pay for you to sit the other rating. After two years productive service you could then move on to the location of your choice with some civil experience under your belt. It isn’t perfect as the CAA experience is based on military stations but its better than nothing.

Look at www: safeskys.co.uk/stop press & jobs

[261_p]

I'm not being rude, but be aware that your Mil' experience counts for little when you are doing the civvi' courses

I guessed this would be the case becuase otherwise half the RAF would be on the way out the door

(I only say this because a small minority of ex Mill ATCOs find it a shock) that in the civvi world you start at the bottom of a big heap and no one will call you Sir

Good! The whole Mil extra BS is part of the attraction of leaving

Monkey Madness: Thanks for the info about course prices!! good to know. how exactly are the Gov going to pay towards this? must have missed the white paper..?

Vulcan Lover: Thanks for info but think i'd rather move away from mil stuff altogether..

Thanks All so far

[Monkey Madness]

Still awaiting the final details, but the initial details are that service leavers with 6+ years under their belts can have up to their first degree or vocational equiv tuition fees paid for by the government. One of the guys here is awaiting a response from the defence ministers office regarding the actual spacifics regarding ATC training. Will post more when he hears back

[LXGB]

Originally Posted by Vulcan Lover

Wattisham is a good example.

Any news on the Wattisham contract decision yet?

Last I heard, the announcement was due this month.

Cheers,
LXGB

[niknak]

Rumour has that the MOD made a muck up of the tendering process, realised that things wouldn't be in place for the final round to take place, (I don't know what those "things" were) and asked Serco to carry on for another 6 months.
Realising that they MOD by the balls, it is said that Serco said 18 months or nothing which the MOD are said to have accepted.

I understand that SERCO have a 25 year maintenance contract on the Apache and have suggested to the MOD that they also take the ATC contract on similar terms, rather worryingly, the MOD seem to be warming to the idea.

[204red]

Niknak,

Rumour has it.....
I dont know what the 'things' are...
it is said.....
MoD are said...
I understand.....
MoD seem......

You obviously have your finger on the Wattisham pulse

[skodasfinesthour]

261,

Unless ATCO Fred from this forum has got in contact with you, then PM me as I may be able to help you out with a) upto date info on courses and prices.... b) experiences of those who were in a similar situation (myself included about 2 yrs ago at 28!).

Also if you search for a mil-civil atc group on yahoo, that may also bring up some useful info


And finally...just a personal opinion....but don't go down the safeskys route.....please


Cheers

[ATCO Fred]

Somebody call.........

Life is good.......controlling is fun........and NO is a word I'm now allowed to use!!

Hello Skodaman seen the photo's from CW - missed the ATC cars and only got those from ground radio

Fred

[niknak]

204Red

When you become a qualified Ppruner you'll understand what such phrases mean - i.e. 95% thr truth....

[Ramraider]

Ramraider

Vulcan Lover's post has a bit of the old Gizajob style about it. Do you think they are related?

[lippiatt]

Vulcan Lover

Vulcan lover = the artist formerly known as Gisajob.

Hi Dicky - how is the Merc?