ATIS on the ILS frequency.
Thread Starter
niknak
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,335
Likes: 0
From: UK
ATIS on the ILS frequency.
The most recent CHIRP carried an article about pilots having difficulty clearly getting the Luton ATIS at an early range/reasonably high level, because it shares the frequency with another European airport just outside the range which ICAO stipulate same frequencies should transmit on.
In the article, it stated that MAN had the same problem so they put the ATIS on the VOR and the problem dissapeared.
Obviously Luton does not have a VOR, but I was wondering:
a) As they are a NATS unit, wouldn't it be possible to put it on the BKY VOR, or/and,
b) Couldn't it be put on the ILS Localiser frequency? - they operate in much the same frequency spectrum as VORs and have the same ICAO distance/same frequency requirements as VORs - which I am told, are greater than for ATIS/ATC frequencies.
In the article, it stated that MAN had the same problem so they put the ATIS on the VOR and the problem dissapeared.
Obviously Luton does not have a VOR, but I was wondering:
a) As they are a NATS unit, wouldn't it be possible to put it on the BKY VOR, or/and,
b) Couldn't it be put on the ILS Localiser frequency? - they operate in much the same frequency spectrum as VORs and have the same ICAO distance/same frequency requirements as VORs - which I am told, are greater than for ATIS/ATC frequencies.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
From: Wilmslow and North Yorks
It's definately possible, but the range would be much more more restricted than a VOR. The RAF still have an emergency speech facility on their ILS systems...so it does work...
It isn't done because the currently operational systems are better.
It isn't done because the currently operational systems are better.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,991
Likes: 8
From: UK
Are we really that short of frequencies that the DOC cannot be improved by utilising another frequency? And VOLMET doesnt tell you which runway is in use and other pertinent landing information.
The same problem applies to EMA when approaching from the south which is blasted out by, I recall, one of the French ATIS. If the wind is such that it's difficult to second guess the runway and you get it wrong you end up having to reset things halfway through the melee descent. Also better to get the ATIS before descent rather than having only one pilot on ATC during descent (have you noticed the ATIS gets longer will all sorts of disclaimers - increased bird activity - how many owls do they get at midnight?) which has ramifications for level bust.
I think this is an area where frequency allocation has an indirect impact on flight safety.
Of course, in the "olden days" LATCC would tell you the runway in use at destination along with the inbound routing, STAR etc. I guess this was dropped due to RT workload?
The same problem applies to EMA when approaching from the south which is blasted out by, I recall, one of the French ATIS. If the wind is such that it's difficult to second guess the runway and you get it wrong you end up having to reset things halfway through the melee descent. Also better to get the ATIS before descent rather than having only one pilot on ATC during descent (have you noticed the ATIS gets longer will all sorts of disclaimers - increased bird activity - how many owls do they get at midnight?) which has ramifications for level bust.
I think this is an area where frequency allocation has an indirect impact on flight safety.
Of course, in the "olden days" LATCC would tell you the runway in use at destination along with the inbound routing, STAR etc. I guess this was dropped due to RT workload?
Guest
Posts: n/a
If you could see the hassle involved in getting a frequency then, yes, we do appear to be short of spectrum. I can't see any reason why the CAA would invent these difficulties if they do not really exist.
You may have provided a bit of an answer - or at least a way to focus on flight safety issues - in your post. If you are unable to obtain the info you need from ATIS, then ask whichever unit you are speaking to to get it for you and explain why. A few reports going in to CAA from ATC will soon focus minds - and hopefully there will be a solution in there somewhere.
I wouldn't normally advocate increasing ATC workload - I've been that one-armed paperhanger too often myself - but if you need the info for reasons of safety, that's one of the things ATC is there for (although I admit that some of my younger colleagues do seem to hold a slightly different view!).
You may have provided a bit of an answer - or at least a way to focus on flight safety issues - in your post. If you are unable to obtain the info you need from ATIS, then ask whichever unit you are speaking to to get it for you and explain why. A few reports going in to CAA from ATC will soon focus minds - and hopefully there will be a solution in there somewhere.
I wouldn't normally advocate increasing ATC workload - I've been that one-armed paperhanger too often myself - but if you need the info for reasons of safety, that's one of the things ATC is there for (although I admit that some of my younger colleagues do seem to hold a slightly different view!).
