Cowardly act on 121.5
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Cowardly act on 121.5
I was demonstrating a Practice Pan the other day to a student, just made contact with London Centre when an anonymous voice said 'No practice pans on here'. Both the controller and I ignored him and got on with our respective jobs.
My point is that this interrupted the flow of the demo and was cowardly in that the caller didn't identify themselves. I know this has been discussed before and the UK is unique as far as I know in offering this service.
The reason I'm keen to demo this to students and then get them to practice themselves on the next lesson is that I recently had a student solo who had to use the service in anger and I want to make sure all my students are better preparerd to use it effectively. London Centre are also keen that people practice both for the pilot's benefit and for controller currency.
How can we get this message across to those at FL350 who are required to keep a listening watch on 121.5 that it's a legitimate and encouraged exercise?
Cheers,
TheOddOne (use of a pseudonym isn't the same thing!)
My point is that this interrupted the flow of the demo and was cowardly in that the caller didn't identify themselves. I know this has been discussed before and the UK is unique as far as I know in offering this service.
The reason I'm keen to demo this to students and then get them to practice themselves on the next lesson is that I recently had a student solo who had to use the service in anger and I want to make sure all my students are better preparerd to use it effectively. London Centre are also keen that people practice both for the pilot's benefit and for controller currency.
How can we get this message across to those at FL350 who are required to keep a listening watch on 121.5 that it's a legitimate and encouraged exercise?
Cheers,
TheOddOne (use of a pseudonym isn't the same thing!)
It's regretful that certain airline pilots seem to regard 121.5 as an air to air 'chat' frequency and resent it when it is used for a legitimate function.
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Whilst it may be legal in the UK to use 121.5 for practice pans, legal to use 121.5 as a test freq for ATC R/T equipment in Germany (most often in the morning), and legal for chatting in french when overhead France, there is one serious consequence of all this noise an an important frequency: It will lead to calls missed on the other frequency if 121.5 is monitored, or ATC has no back-up to contact an aircraft if 121.5 is turned off.
There should be other frequencies for chats, COM tests and exercises.
Of course, it is not up to any individual (airliner or other) pilots to enforce upon others what he percives as "best practice".
There should be other frequencies for chats, COM tests and exercises.
Of course, it is not up to any individual (airliner or other) pilots to enforce upon others what he percives as "best practice".
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I'm not sure what the current school of thoughts are on this subject but 30 years ago training used to consist of a demonstration to students (lost procedure - prior to cross country training) using the preamble "Practice Pan, Practice Pan, Practice Pan". It was considered useful training for the controllers and students alike, and obviously a real live Mayday or PAN meant the 'practice pan' would cease.
Is this sort of training no longer allowed?
Is this sort of training no longer allowed?
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I will never understand why ANYONE would misuse the 121,5 for anything except a legitimate emergency/PAN! Can't you just arrange with your home airfield or ask for another frequency to use for practice purposes?
In Germany there's a board/board frequency, 122,800, for chatting...122,25 for balloonists, 123,15 for glider training, and so on....
I remember the Pprune discussion here about the 123,45 usage.... shame, shame...
Frequency's are designated for particular purposes, airfields, people, companies, etc.... don't use them for anything else!
There shouldn't even be a need for a discussion about this!
I guess you can tell this is a pet peeve of mine
Westy
In Germany there's a board/board frequency, 122,800, for chatting...122,25 for balloonists, 123,15 for glider training, and so on....
I remember the Pprune discussion here about the 123,45 usage.... shame, shame...
Frequency's are designated for particular purposes, airfields, people, companies, etc.... don't use them for anything else!
There shouldn't even be a need for a discussion about this!
I guess you can tell this is a pet peeve of mine
Westy
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Frequency's are designated for particular purposes, airfields, people, companies, etc.... don't use them for anything else!
Maybe they should take a few of the cowards to task publicly in the courts for being 121.5 police, a 100 pounds hit including costs should shut them up. DF them and pull the CVR when they land. You would only have to do it a couple of times.
BTW I have been asked 4-5 times now by an area controller to help out with controller training on 121.5 with a practise pan on box 2. Because "The GA boys arn't giving them enough practise".
DnD have pulled the tapes of 121.5 in the UK and by far the most traffic comes from CAT either by mistake or by intention for none emergency use.
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I will never understand why ANYONE would misuse the 121,5 for anything except a legitimate emergency/PAN!
1.7 Radio Procedures – Practice Emergencies
1.7.1 Pilots may simulate emergency incidents (BUT NOT THE STATE OF DISTRESS) on
121.5 MHz to enable them to gain experience of the ATC service provided.
1.7.1 Pilots may simulate emergency incidents (BUT NOT THE STATE OF DISTRESS) on
121.5 MHz to enable them to gain experience of the ATC service provided.
It's good for controllers, so that they can keep current and practice the relevent procedures.
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<<Using 121.5 in the UK from the above reasons is legitimate, documented and approved. >>
Irrespective of what is written, sheer commonsense suggests that an immediate QSY to another frequency would be better than clogging up the real emergency channel. I've oft wondered why this doesn't happen. It's just like clogging 999 with irrelevant calls..
Irrespective of what is written, sheer commonsense suggests that an immediate QSY to another frequency would be better than clogging up the real emergency channel. I've oft wondered why this doesn't happen. It's just like clogging 999 with irrelevant calls..
Avoid imitations
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I agree that chat on 121.5 can be a distraction. However, although under no remit to do so (I write my own company rules) I keep it dialled on my box 2 and simply use the volume switch to turn it down if necessary. Then, I turn it up again a minute later. Hey Presto....no problem!
The use of the frequency for practices, training fixes, etc is perfectly correct usage and valuable for both pilots and controllers. Yes, it would be good if we could have another dedicated frequency for training, but we don't because no-one is going to fund it - so we should just learn to live with what we have, know the rules and tolerate correct usage by others.
Increasingly these days, the most common (and most irritating) use is inadvertent use by commercial pilots (mainly airlines), apparently incapable of using their radios correctly. They are usually politely answered by others, often London Centre, after their second or third unanswered call intended for another agency. "Shanwick, Shanwick" is one favourite.... These pilots should learn to check which box they have selected before pressing the transmit switch.
The use of the frequency for practices, training fixes, etc is perfectly correct usage and valuable for both pilots and controllers. Yes, it would be good if we could have another dedicated frequency for training, but we don't because no-one is going to fund it - so we should just learn to live with what we have, know the rules and tolerate correct usage by others.
Increasingly these days, the most common (and most irritating) use is inadvertent use by commercial pilots (mainly airlines), apparently incapable of using their radios correctly. They are usually politely answered by others, often London Centre, after their second or third unanswered call intended for another agency. "Shanwick, Shanwick" is one favourite.... These pilots should learn to check which box they have selected before pressing the transmit switch.
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I agree with Heathrow Director. The use of 121.5 for practice pans is indeed approved legally but rather out of touch with the point these days. It is very distracting monitoring this frequency on the 2nd box only to have to turn it down every time a painfully long winded practice pan conversation takes place. This can naturally lead to complacency when it comes to monitoring responsibilities by the pilot.
Having said that we are privileged in the UK that 121.5 is not nearly as infested with chit-chat as the rest of Europe is.
The gold star t**ser award must go to the English airline pilot on 121.5 a few days ago who leapt at the opportunity to indulge in the following "hilarious banter":
("...err Aviance this is Ryanair 123")
"...go ahead..."
("...Ryanair 123 on the ground at '53 no special passengers etc.")
"..well that's all very interesting but you are ON GUARD!"
A simple mistake by one pilot leads to an idiot exarcebating the incorrect use of air time.
Having said that we are privileged in the UK that 121.5 is not nearly as infested with chit-chat as the rest of Europe is.
The gold star t**ser award must go to the English airline pilot on 121.5 a few days ago who leapt at the opportunity to indulge in the following "hilarious banter":
("...err Aviance this is Ryanair 123")
"...go ahead..."
("...Ryanair 123 on the ground at '53 no special passengers etc.")
"..well that's all very interesting but you are ON GUARD!"
A simple mistake by one pilot leads to an idiot exarcebating the incorrect use of air time.
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Any idea why more airfields aren't VDF equipped in the UK?
In the continent, most ATC frequencies seem to have the capability, so if one wants to practise PAN / QDM, etc., one does it on the frequency in use. Similarly, if one is going down, one does not have to fiddle with the radios to tune into 121.5. I understand the difference between a single QDR and a triangulated fix and the implications thereof, but I wonder if it makes any significant difference to the outcome these days.
In the continent, most ATC frequencies seem to have the capability, so if one wants to practise PAN / QDM, etc., one does it on the frequency in use. Similarly, if one is going down, one does not have to fiddle with the radios to tune into 121.5. I understand the difference between a single QDR and a triangulated fix and the implications thereof, but I wonder if it makes any significant difference to the outcome these days.
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<<Any idea why more airfields aren't VDF equipped in the UK?>>
Cost? D/F was removed from Heathrow many, many years ago, prior to which is was available on all the approach control frequencies. It was a great help before SSR because it gave controllers a hint where to look on the screen when an aircraft called. With the advent of SSR it was decided that D/F was no longer necessary... and we all missed it badly. (At least, I think that was the reason)
Cost? D/F was removed from Heathrow many, many years ago, prior to which is was available on all the approach control frequencies. It was a great help before SSR because it gave controllers a hint where to look on the screen when an aircraft called. With the advent of SSR it was decided that D/F was no longer necessary... and we all missed it badly. (At least, I think that was the reason)
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This can naturally lead to complacency when it comes to monitoring responsibilities by the pilot.
The use of 121.5 for practice pans is indeed approved legally but rather out of touch with the point these days.
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Shytorque -
Because when 121.5 is constantly buzzing with non-emergency transmissions I for one am guilty of deselecting it to give my ears a rest and forgetting to reselect.
The point of 121.5 is in my opinion to leave the frequency absolutely clear for genuine emergency transmissions. Since some genuine calls may be in remote areas, we stand a good chance of hearing them at altitude and be able to provide a relay to D&D. Practice useage of 121.5 could block out someone in dire need of assistance.
Because when 121.5 is constantly buzzing with non-emergency transmissions I for one am guilty of deselecting it to give my ears a rest and forgetting to reselect.
The point of 121.5 is in my opinion to leave the frequency absolutely clear for genuine emergency transmissions. Since some genuine calls may be in remote areas, we stand a good chance of hearing them at altitude and be able to provide a relay to D&D. Practice useage of 121.5 could block out someone in dire need of assistance.
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Funny, but it only seems to be a problem in the 'angry' south of the country. Always interesting how quickly the self-appointed frequency police leap onto 121.5 to yell "You're on guard!" when their primary task ought to be monitoring their assigned ATC frequency, especially in and around the busiest airspace in the country. Monitoring 121.5 should be a very low low priority task in relation to operating your own a/c safely.
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But you have to remember that it isn't the pilots that get to practice on 121.5.
How do you think the D&D controllers get a license - they practice on it.
So all those pilots who say that 121.5 shouldn't be used - how would you feel if the one day that you really needed it, the controller was all a fluster!
D&D at Scottish Mil frequently use 121.5 for DF training fixes as (and i stand to be corrected) don't have a fancy locator like Swanwick.
Those guys and gals do it the old fashioned way with DF fixes form land stations and manual plotting!
How do you think the D&D controllers get a license - they practice on it.
So all those pilots who say that 121.5 shouldn't be used - how would you feel if the one day that you really needed it, the controller was all a fluster!
D&D at Scottish Mil frequently use 121.5 for DF training fixes as (and i stand to be corrected) don't have a fancy locator like Swanwick.
Those guys and gals do it the old fashioned way with DF fixes form land stations and manual plotting!
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I'm not for one minute suggesting each party shouldn't practice! But why block the emergency frequency to do it?
Heathrow Director posted "Irrespective of what is written, sheer commonsense suggests that an immediate QSY to another frequency would be better than clogging up the real emergency channel. "
MaudeCharlee I agree with your point. I can't stand guard police either. They make the situation worse!
Heathrow Director posted "Irrespective of what is written, sheer commonsense suggests that an immediate QSY to another frequency would be better than clogging up the real emergency channel. "
MaudeCharlee I agree with your point. I can't stand guard police either. They make the situation worse!
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Mandatory for us in the gulf to keep 121.5 on box 2, not only for distress but also in case of comms failure on 1, We also are obliged to use it when there is a lost comm situation to re-establish a correct frequency (happens frequently crossing Saudi and flying up the gulf).