D&D History
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D&D History
Could anyone shed any light on the history of the Distress and Diversion Cells both at London and Scottish?
I would like to know when they were formed? The earliest history I can find is the move of D&D from Uxbridge to West Drayton in 1970, but nothing before this. I believe the London cell was formed following the infamous crash of 6 Hunter ac which ran out of fuel in 1956, but this may just be folk law. Equally I can not find anything regarding the establishment of the cell in Scotland.
Any help would be most appreciated.
I would like to know when they were formed? The earliest history I can find is the move of D&D from Uxbridge to West Drayton in 1970, but nothing before this. I believe the London cell was formed following the infamous crash of 6 Hunter ac which ran out of fuel in 1956, but this may just be folk law. Equally I can not find anything regarding the establishment of the cell in Scotland.
Any help would be most appreciated.
When I left a couple of years ago, the Central Air Traffic Control School (CATCS) at Shawbury had just taken over curatorship of the RAF ATC Museum - yes, such a thing exists. Many of the museum artifacts, including documents and photos, were concerned with the D&D Cells' history. CATCS also seemed to be the place where most of the old hoary D&D controllers seemed to go to gracefully await retirement instructing so the knowledge is there.
It may be worth giving dropping the CATCS Adj a line or contacting the CRO asking to be put in touch?
CRO
RAF Shawbury
Shawbury, Shrewsbury, Shrops,
SY4 4DZ. Telephone (01939) 250351Ext 7572
[email protected]
Hope this helps.
It may be worth giving dropping the CATCS Adj a line or contacting the CRO asking to be put in touch?
CRO
RAF Shawbury
Shawbury, Shrewsbury, Shrops,
SY4 4DZ. Telephone (01939) 250351Ext 7572
[email protected]
Hope this helps.
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D&D History
Back in the 1980s Pat Dyer was setting up an ATC Museum at Shawbury and acquired all kinds of interesting stuff. Sadly most of what Pat acquired appears to have vanished in some clear out or other. Some of the documentation may have found its way down to the museum at Cosford, but you're welcome to try and find it!!
I spent five years at LATCC from the late 1970s in the days when D&D was a real elephants graveyard and I'm glad things eventually changed. I know a certain gentleman who spent a long tme in D&D during the 1990's, so I'll see if he can shed some light on this topic.
Changing tack slightly does anyone actually know why LATCC was built in the middle of a run-down council estate in West Drayton, when in reality it could have been sited almost anywhere? I asked this question to various aged civil ATCOs whilst passing the time of day in the CASOR as the LJAO Sup. Most people just sctrached their balding heads and said they had no idea.
Eventually, one day an elderly civil ATCO came up with the best suggestion as follows. The Linesman Mediator project was designed to create one centre which combined radar inputs from civil and military radars for civil ATCOs and Fighter Controllers. The military were paying 50% of the cost, so were keen to keep costs to an absolute minmum (hence the breeze block and glass construction methods, resulting in an Officers Mess that practically fell apart -but that's another story)
The majority of the civil ATCOs who would man the new unit would be drawn from the old Heathrow Radar unit and so it was felt essential to locate the new unit reasonably adjacent to Heathrow. Also, when the early planning for the new unit was taking place, the technology to transmit a radar picture any distance was limited and as it was thought that the old Heathrow 264 radar would be one of the main radars used by the new unit, someone stuck a pin on a map with a bit of string attached measuring the maximum distance available from the radar and drew a large circle. Then the planners looked inside the circle for a potential site and their eyes alighted on a run-down RAF Supply Depot situated in Porters Way, West Drayton - the rest as they say is history!!
I've no idea if this is the true reasons why LATCC ended up where it did, but if anyone can offer a better solution, I'd be delighted to read it.
Heimdall
I spent five years at LATCC from the late 1970s in the days when D&D was a real elephants graveyard and I'm glad things eventually changed. I know a certain gentleman who spent a long tme in D&D during the 1990's, so I'll see if he can shed some light on this topic.
Changing tack slightly does anyone actually know why LATCC was built in the middle of a run-down council estate in West Drayton, when in reality it could have been sited almost anywhere? I asked this question to various aged civil ATCOs whilst passing the time of day in the CASOR as the LJAO Sup. Most people just sctrached their balding heads and said they had no idea.
Eventually, one day an elderly civil ATCO came up with the best suggestion as follows. The Linesman Mediator project was designed to create one centre which combined radar inputs from civil and military radars for civil ATCOs and Fighter Controllers. The military were paying 50% of the cost, so were keen to keep costs to an absolute minmum (hence the breeze block and glass construction methods, resulting in an Officers Mess that practically fell apart -but that's another story)
The majority of the civil ATCOs who would man the new unit would be drawn from the old Heathrow Radar unit and so it was felt essential to locate the new unit reasonably adjacent to Heathrow. Also, when the early planning for the new unit was taking place, the technology to transmit a radar picture any distance was limited and as it was thought that the old Heathrow 264 radar would be one of the main radars used by the new unit, someone stuck a pin on a map with a bit of string attached measuring the maximum distance available from the radar and drew a large circle. Then the planners looked inside the circle for a potential site and their eyes alighted on a run-down RAF Supply Depot situated in Porters Way, West Drayton - the rest as they say is history!!
I've no idea if this is the true reasons why LATCC ended up where it did, but if anyone can offer a better solution, I'd be delighted to read it.
Heimdall
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When I started in ATC, at Preston ATCC in early 1967, there was a D&D cell there. We civvies did not venture into the RAF's domain very often as there were activities about which we didn't need to know very much going on beside the D&D organisation. We didn't call it D&D it was Auto Triang (Triangulation) and it had a rather splendid map below which were repeaters from a number of CADF receivers at various RAF stations. When a call was received on 121.5 or 243 the d/f traces illuminated and a fix could be obtained virtually instantaneously. They also had a rather splendid unit tie, I had one which I kept for many years until it succumbed to the ravages of time and spilt soup.
"Changing tack slightly does anyone actually know why LATCC was built in the middle of a run-down council estate in West Drayton, when in reality it could have been sited almost anywhere?"
The popular myth at one time was that it should have been at West Raynham but the arrangements were done by 'phone!
The popular myth at one time was that it should have been at West Raynham but the arrangements were done by 'phone!
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I believe the theories offered by heimdall for the establishment of LATCC at WD are good. I was a mere kid out of school working as a lowest-of-the-low clerk in the Min of Av in a department dealing with telephone arrangements for ATC and the technical people I served were actively dealing with the LATCC bit then. I seem to recall discussion about the transmission of radar pictures over long distance, etc. Whatever the reason, it wasn't very good!
On the original subject - wasn't some sort of 121.5 triangulation available much earlier... like late 50s/ early 60s from Uxbridge? I saw the system in use at RAF stations during Air Training Corps camps in the late 50s and I'd sure be interested in the D&D facts, if they ever surface.
On the original subject - wasn't some sort of 121.5 triangulation available much earlier... like late 50s/ early 60s from Uxbridge? I saw the system in use at RAF stations during Air Training Corps camps in the late 50s and I'd sure be interested in the D&D facts, if they ever surface.
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When I joined the job in 1966 it was as an ATC3 at the newly named London ATCC (previously Southern) on the north side at Heathrow. Part of the initial training was a trip to RAF Uxbridge to see the old centre and I'm sure that D&D were there then (with auto-triang on 243.0) as well as the coms centre for EGTT. I worked at WD before it opened for stage half. In fact I was there the night it opened for business with the D men moving in!
The perceived wisdom was that the project did start as linesman/mediator but the RAF dropped out of linesman as they didn't like the idea of all their Air defence stuff in a "soft" building. However, they did have the real estate in the form of RAF WD. Funnily enuf, it was a military prison for a time (how apposite) and in '66 you could still see the bars on the windows etc. And yes it was convenient for moving LATCC personnel.
The radar unit was renamed LATCRU, I think, and stayed on the north side until 1971 and Mediator stage 1. Heathrow radar was the military radar unit on the same site but separate - if you see what I mean.
Don't know about the problems of remoting radars - LATCRU and WD later had radar on microwave links from Ash in Kent and Ventnor on IoW so it could come some distance! Later on, as a Sector Controller, in the days of scan converters, I learned to switch radars to the remotes because the blips aligned the other way (along instead of across the Awy) and you got separation more easily than on the Heathrow 264's.
Ah, the good old days!!!
The perceived wisdom was that the project did start as linesman/mediator but the RAF dropped out of linesman as they didn't like the idea of all their Air defence stuff in a "soft" building. However, they did have the real estate in the form of RAF WD. Funnily enuf, it was a military prison for a time (how apposite) and in '66 you could still see the bars on the windows etc. And yes it was convenient for moving LATCC personnel.
The radar unit was renamed LATCRU, I think, and stayed on the north side until 1971 and Mediator stage 1. Heathrow radar was the military radar unit on the same site but separate - if you see what I mean.
Don't know about the problems of remoting radars - LATCRU and WD later had radar on microwave links from Ash in Kent and Ventnor on IoW so it could come some distance! Later on, as a Sector Controller, in the days of scan converters, I learned to switch radars to the remotes because the blips aligned the other way (along instead of across the Awy) and you got separation more easily than on the Heathrow 264's.
Ah, the good old days!!!
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Auto Triang was preceeded by manual systems. At the simplest these worked by remote stations monitoring the frequency and telephoning the d/f bearings to a central unit which plotted them manually. I believe a piece of string centred in a compass rose was used for speed of plotting. I think the last manual triangulation was operated by the R&D airfields. I worked with an EFCA, the R&D equivalent of an ATCA who had been a goniometer operator at Pershore and he reckoned between Pershore, Farnborough and Bedford and possibly other units ( memory is getting dim) they could fix an aircraft's position in a minute or so.
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In response to 'Why West Drayton' may I refer the Honourable Gentleman to an excellent book entitled 'Watching The Skies' which goes into great detail about the cold war air defence strategy. I have just been involved in the production of a NATS booklet marking the closure of West Drayton and in the course of researching came across a few anacdotes on why L1. Unfortunately the truth is very mundane and all center on the spiralling costs of Linesman/Mediator and nothing to do with supposed data transmission limitations. Originally there were going to be two or more Linesman sites - hence L1 as it became at West Drayton. As stated theMOD owned the site which already had a very chequered history since 1919 so the Government of the day tried to cap the costs of providing Air Defence and Air Traffic Control by combing sites. As previously stated Heathrow (SATCC) was outgrowing its home and West Drayton was convenient for the ATCO/ATSA trained workforce and the RAF personnel would go where they were told to. I know from experience that most of the 'Blue Mafia' hated the place . Can I correct the point that it was a 'soft building' - the L1 sections were 'iron bomb' proof but it was realised that there was little point in trying to TEMPEST the site since the RADAR sites providing the information would be the first things to be vaporised anyway. Therefore, as long as there was some battle assesment that would get the V Bomber retaliation scrambled and theLightnings into the air that was job done for L1.
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Moldioldi... thanks for all that. Tell me, do you know anything about floors below ground at WD? When I was transported there from Heathrow in 1992 someone told me there were half a dozen or more floors below ground level. I used to wander around the place and found a staircase leading downwards from ground level but never ventured close enough to see how deep it went. What I've always wondered is, if there were floors below ground, why on earth were the ops room so close to the road at ground level with no protection whatsoever from blast damage?
About 6 floors down there is a massive lever operating a circuit breaker. It is marked "Do not switch off". There is a cable next to it with some acronym on it, I could never quite work out what it meant, maybe someone else could help...the marking was S.........W..........?.........N...........W.........?...... ..C..........K.
No idea what it was for but I am sure when they knock the place down they will find out!
No idea what it was for but I am sure when they knock the place down they will find out!
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LL Dire. I am certain there are only two levels below ground under L1. the first level down - known as 'The Void' was used for cable and ducting runs (as well as certain nocturnal activities involving both sexes!!). Below that there are sump rooms and pumps for drain water and electrical switch gear. Also two rooms that had 15' diameter fans that pumped air round the building! There was also reputedly a fallout shelter that RAF were to be evacuated to in event of an attack. The truth behind this depended on who you asked - some said it did exist and others that there was no such place. Certainly I remember RAF bods trooping down stairs during anual exercise periods but I am reasonably certain there was no room with air and water supplies that could have sustained life for a prolonged period.
The OPS rooms were designed and built before terror attacks were thought of hence their proximity to the public road. After The Boys started throwing things that went bang they did put steel plates over the windows facing Porters Way as well as increasing site ingress security.
The RAF Linesman control rooms were on three floors in the tall L1 (Cathedral) block so they were blast proofed along with the equipment rooms at ground level in the other part of L1.
L2 was proposed for an underground site in Cheshire but the project got superceded by UKADGE.
The OPS rooms were designed and built before terror attacks were thought of hence their proximity to the public road. After The Boys started throwing things that went bang they did put steel plates over the windows facing Porters Way as well as increasing site ingress security.
The RAF Linesman control rooms were on three floors in the tall L1 (Cathedral) block so they were blast proofed along with the equipment rooms at ground level in the other part of L1.
L2 was proposed for an underground site in Cheshire but the project got superceded by UKADGE.
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There was also reputedly a fallout shelter that RAF were to be evacuated to in event of an attack. The truth behind this depended on who you asked - some said it did exist and others that there was no such place. Certainly I remember RAF bods trooping down stairs during anual exercise periods but I am reasonably certain there was no room with air and water supplies that could have sustained life for a prolonged period.
BD
