Scottish ATC - "FL70 by Tartan"
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Scottish ATC - "FL70 by Tartan"
Just a quickie for those ATCOs in Scottish....we operate into EDI a lot and often get given a level restriction of FL70 by Tartan. We get handed over to to EDI radar though before we get there and usually get further descent clearance from them to an altitude.
Question is.....technically** the clearance from EDI absolves us from the level restriction so why is it issued?
**Note: I have seen the CAA document that deals with the general issue of the requirement to maintain a level restriction when re-cleared by another controller, but can't remember which one it was....
Question is.....technically** the clearance from EDI absolves us from the level restriction so why is it issued?
**Note: I have seen the CAA document that deals with the general issue of the requirement to maintain a level restriction when re-cleared by another controller, but can't remember which one it was....
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Scottish have a standing agreement with Edinburgh which specifies that arrivals should be spaced a minimum of 8nm in trail, at 250 knots and level at Minimum Stack Level (roughly the Flight Level Equivalent of 7000ft QNH) by TARTN.
The level restriction ensures that you can slow down further for sequencing purposes (210 knots etc) but still have sufficient track miles to join the ILS Glidepath at 10 miles.
It also allows both Edinburgh and Scottish the option to place arrivals in the TWEED hold if traffic congestion becomes a problem. Without the level restriction arrivals would join the hold at higher levels, which causes difficulty in stacking subsequent arrivals.
If Edinburgh give you descent on contact below the Min Stack Level, you are quite correct in saying that the TARTN restriction no longer applies, unless it is restated in the descent instruction. However, your descent profile will already be established in the desired envelope, so this does not present a problem.
During quiet periods controllers may omit the TARTN level restriction, when it is clear that holding or late speed reductions will be not be necessary.
Hope this is useful.
The level restriction ensures that you can slow down further for sequencing purposes (210 knots etc) but still have sufficient track miles to join the ILS Glidepath at 10 miles.
It also allows both Edinburgh and Scottish the option to place arrivals in the TWEED hold if traffic congestion becomes a problem. Without the level restriction arrivals would join the hold at higher levels, which causes difficulty in stacking subsequent arrivals.
If Edinburgh give you descent on contact below the Min Stack Level, you are quite correct in saying that the TARTN restriction no longer applies, unless it is restated in the descent instruction. However, your descent profile will already be established in the desired envelope, so this does not present a problem.
During quiet periods controllers may omit the TARTN level restriction, when it is clear that holding or late speed reductions will be not be necessary.
Hope this is useful.
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Yes thanks, it is.
We often discuss it on the way in to EDI and kind of thought it had something to do with that but it is good to know for certain....
Cheers..
WS
We often discuss it on the way in to EDI and kind of thought it had something to do with that but it is good to know for certain....
Cheers..
WS
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Hi Wilton,Talla radar pretty much gave you a good answer there.
A couple of additional points. If you are arriving on one of the tweed STARs then the TARTN level restriction is part of that so it shouldn't come as a surprise. Also,even if the Talla sectors(126.3,130.975) are quiet,I will still restrict you to min stack at TARTN. The reasoning behind that is because PH radar may well (and often do) have numerous IFR arrivals from the north or from PF that the Talla sectors do not hold details on. No point me leaving you high and fast because my sector is quiet only for PH to have you as number six and give you loads of extra mileage!
Cheers,rolaaand.
A couple of additional points. If you are arriving on one of the tweed STARs then the TARTN level restriction is part of that so it shouldn't come as a surprise. Also,even if the Talla sectors(126.3,130.975) are quiet,I will still restrict you to min stack at TARTN. The reasoning behind that is because PH radar may well (and often do) have numerous IFR arrivals from the north or from PF that the Talla sectors do not hold details on. No point me leaving you high and fast because my sector is quiet only for PH to have you as number six and give you loads of extra mileage!
Cheers,rolaaand.
