Which UK ATC units have weather radar?

[321now]

The approach radar head at LHR is superb for weather, it's a DASA SRE-M8, the Germans use this with weather overlay... Why can't NATS??

[Spitoon]

The approach radar head at LHR is superb for weather, it's a DASA SRE-M8, the Germans use this with weather overlay... Why can't NATS??

OK, now you're confusing me. You say the LL APP head is superb for wx - I presume you mean that it detects wx well. You then say that in Germany this radar is used with a wx overlay - which suggests that the wx data is derived from another radar.

321, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here but we seem to be getting into the realms of the possible combinations of radar sensor, processor (and plot extractor), data chain and display systems.

But to answer your last point - Why can't NATS?? Assuming that it's possible, and I've no doubt that from a technical perspective it could be done, the answer is quite simple £££££.

[Spamcan defender]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spamcan defender
I too work LTMA and would say that having a toggleable wx overlay on the sector I work on would be an advantage.

First thing you need to define is what you mean by 'weather' and the second thing is what are your requirements?

OK, I shall be more succinct....

By weather I mean active cells, thats all I, and I'm sure pilots, really give a toss about. If a Stormscope in a PA34 can do it then I'm sure some form of ground based equipment can do it too.

My requirements would be to have a big, and I mean fecking HUGE(at least 30sqmm), button marked 'WX' about 4" bearing 300deg from my comms switch which, when pressed, would magically display active cells in my sector as a nice red 'lightning' symbol about 5-7mm in length and about 3mm wide. Maybe even make the symbol waggle about a bit so I can see it. If I press the button again I want to make it all go away......

Hows that for succinct????

Spamcan

[BDiONU]

Originally Posted by Spamcan defender

By weather I mean active cells, thats all I, and I'm sure pilots, really give a toss about.

So you don't want to see 'weather' you want to see CB's?

display active cells in my sector as a nice red 'lightning' symbol about 5-7mm in length and about 3mm wide. Maybe even make the symbol waggle about a bit so I can see it.

Just off the top of my head what mitigation would there be for targets which were obscured by this symbology? What would you (and pilots) expect to be able to do with this, vector aircraft around it without asking if the pilot would wants to be vectored around it? Make ATC responsible for weather avoidance in addition to traffic avoidance?
IMHO anotherthing nails the problem, irrespective whatever the cost and technology required might be in providing a real time CB overlay.

BD

[Spamcan defender]

Just off the top of my head what mitigation would there be for targets which were obscured by this symbology?

None!!! Everyone knows if you cant see the target its not there

Seriously though, I appreciate what your saying there and accept that Wx overlays are probably more trouble than they're worth. I suppose, in all fairness, the present situation is fine with pilots telling us what they would like to do avoidance-wise.

It might be more feasible to configure one of the auxiliary displays at the radar suite to show the WX as displayed on the monitor at the GS desk (TC)

Thats probably a mich better idea.

Spamcan

[BDiONU]

Originally Posted by Spamcan defender

It might be more feasible to configure one of the auxiliary displays at the radar suite to show the WX as displayed on the monitor at the GS desk (TC)

Do you remember yea olde TClipper board from West Drayton? Thats being resurrected at Swanwick and your suggestion should be put to it. Or you could try and win an iPOD by putting it forward as a Safety Idea.

BD

[Spamcan defender]

Or you could try and win an iPOD by putting it forward as a Safety Idea.

I'm sure tongues would wag if I won a SECOND Ipod

Although I shall consider putting the idea forward.

Spamcan

[Bring back Tridents]

Marconi 264s

Ahhhh, Marconi 264s. Now there was a radar. Blips the width of an airway and tangential fade on base leg. <emotion filled sigh> They were great for showing weather but I seem to remember you had to switch the MTI off to do it. Our current Watchman has the rather annoying habit of producing lots of primary returns that might be weather or might be windfarm turbines. Don't think I'd like to have weather shown as an overlay.

[Spitoon]

Marconi 264s. Now there was a radar. Blips the width of an airway and tangential fade on base leg. <emotion filled sigh> They were great for showing weather

But the Marconi only showed really bad weather. If you wanted to see weather you needed a Plessy 424 or 430. They were great, just when you needed them all you could see was the the darned wx clutter. Doing an SRA to half a mile was an art. Eee, by gum, thems was a man's radar!

Ok, apologies to the ladies who used them too, including one who taught me how to caress the 424 control unit to get the best out of it!

[henry crun]

In my experience the 264 could, within limits, show whatever wx you wanted it to, it just depended on how your techs set it up and whether or not the MTI was in or out.

[Bern Oulli]

Ah! The 430. Best weather radar ever. Absolute cr@p for SRA's in bad weather I would agree. Now the Decca 424 was definitely the dog's dangly things. All valves and stuff. Tune for maximum smoke and you could hit the touchdown zone markings every time. Happy days.