Airservices Australia Psychometric Testing
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I was initially thinking tower as well, now I'm not so sure... I like Melbourne and there is no guarantee of getting a preferable posting if I choose the tower route.. And yep it's about a 2 1/2 month difference..
Course is in Melbourne
. Cheers
Course is in Melbourne
. Cheers
Bear in mind also that the ab initio tower course is somewhat shorter than the ab initio enroute course. Might be a longer wait to start, but you might end up coming out of the academy at the same-ish time.
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What makes you think you'll get to choose which course? There are more enroute courses with more students on them. If you want to get into ATC, take the first one offered.
Join Date: Jul 2014
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Yeah true, however the unknown is what scares me.. Packing up and leaving all of the friends and family - my final decision to accept the enroute course starting towards the end of the year
Fujii, i was given a choice of enroute starting later this year or a tower course starting very early 2017. HR allowed me a few days (I only took one) to decide which I would prefer, which was awesome.
I spoke to a friends dad (systems manager or something like that for enroute) who has been with Airservices for 33 years and based my final choice on his advice.
Now I just need to sit tight for the next couple of weeks for my LOO and it will be official!.
Fujii, i was given a choice of enroute starting later this year or a tower course starting very early 2017. HR allowed me a few days (I only took one) to decide which I would prefer, which was awesome.
I spoke to a friends dad (systems manager or something like that for enroute) who has been with Airservices for 33 years and based my final choice on his advice.
Now I just need to sit tight for the next couple of weeks for my LOO and it will be official!.
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Hi all, this seems to be the place to be for nervous ASA applicants.
I did my assessment day in late May (Melbourne). I'm up to the referee stage, as is another from my group.
Congrats to everyone who recently got offers. Did you schedule the medical at the same time as the offer?
I'm interested to see how long the medical process takes, state by state - does anyone have recent info?
I did my assessment day in late May (Melbourne). I'm up to the referee stage, as is another from my group.
Congrats to everyone who recently got offers. Did you schedule the medical at the same time as the offer?
I'm interested to see how long the medical process takes, state by state - does anyone have recent info?
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Good luck to everyone... end of the road?
Good luck to everyone that applies for ATC. I thought I'd share my experience on this rainy day to give everyone an insight on my personal story - and also to share why I feel at the crossroads. I'm sorry if this is really long.
I knew that I wanted to do ATC for a long time, not necessarily straight out of school, but I mulled over it for a few years. I didn't however have the requirements. I completed all the hard maths and physics stuff at school, but because I didn't do English as a subject, I was ineligible. I stayed at my job for a while and got in to the routine, enjoyed it, loved my workmates, but needed more. I felt like I was going to waste. My mum and dad were both in aviation and I gradually i gravitated more and more towards something related. I felt like ATC was the most 'me'. I worked in a busy control room that required lots of pre-planning, thinking on your feet, strong mathematical aptitude. Nowhere near as high importance as moving aircraft around but I thought I had lots of skills that were quite transferrable.
So I decided to take the plunge. I thought to myself "you know what, I'm going to try and make this the best damn application possible". I considered the options and at the end of the day enrolled in a Bachelor of Aviation and concurrently trained for my PPL. I wanted to do absolutely everything I could to look impressive. You only get two shots after all. I even weighed up the fact that having a Pilot's licence might be a downfall (anecdotally it seems they get a lot of cocky pilots applying that think they should be given the job - however my attitude is certainly not cavalier). I didn't want to be a Pilot anyway. It's a nice gig, but it's not 'me'.
I did all the research possible I could on the job. I spoke to existing controllers, I visited towers and TCUs and spent hours in there just watching. They would ask me questions to see my knowledge of the job and I was met with 'Wow... Can you explain that to the rest of our team so that they can understand it better!'. I had so much fun in those visits and one of the towers made me promise them that I would come back there to work once I finished my training! I got a busniess card from one of the supervisors and he has been really nice and helpful to me throughout.
I spent three years at uni, dropping to part-time at work, and ended up getting the B. Aviation and PPL (a few hours off CPL) and submitted my application. The process was extremely tough but I felt I did really well. Got through the online tests, phone interview, an online OPQ and made it through to the assessment centre. I was relieved but at the same time, I know I never have any problems with those psychometric-type exercises.
The assessment day was tough. Everyone here that has attended one knows it's not a walk in the park. It's a long day in the sense that they are testing you in many different ways and besides the exhaustion, you're bloody nervous. Notwithstanding all of this I though I did ok. My schedule for the day said I had my ATC simulation session dead last. Something which I wish I had the ability to change and do all over again.
After a very nervous few weeks, I got the notification that I was unsuccessful. My feedback was that I seemed to do ok in everything except I dropped a couple of points in the simulator. I knew I hadn't done as well as I knew I could, but I was confident I had done enough. I was really really surprised, but you just have to trust the controllers that are judging you. You really have to be at 100% for the whole day and unfortunately due to the restless night of worrying the day beforehand, I started the day on a good foot, but by the end, I was just plain tired. Not so much mentally fatigued, but literally tired.
I had a really nice lady on the phone give me my feedback. She said to me that because I was so close, she strongly recommended that I apply again in 12 months time. This definitely gave me hope and I became more determined than ever.
Flash forward to 12 months later (to the day): I rang Airservices HR and just wanted to ask a few questions about putting in my second application and just wanted some general advice on things to highlight given it was my final shot. Now, I'm not going to comment on anyone personally, but let's give the benefit of the doubt and say this person was having a very bad day. I spoke to someone who was so short and rude to me and said (verbatim) "If I was you, I wouldn't even bother". I was completely amazed and devastated. I was told that 'pilot's dont make good controllers' and 'assessment centres were too expensive, so we don't take people on their second application usually'. Finally, I asked why someone 12 months prior strongly recommended me to reapply, she said 'I don't know. If it was up to me - I'd say no'.
So now to today. It's been several years since that last phone call and I've only really had the courage to write anything about it now. I don't feel angry at the fairly merciless feedback, just more disappointed that I didn't quite get over the line on that assessment day. I feel a bit like my dream is shattered now and I'm back working the same job, just with a useless degree and PPL. Sorry to end on such a melancholy note, but I think it's important that people know that sometimes not everything goes to plan and just make sure that you have things in your life that can fill the void if your dream doesn't work out! I think I'm done with this venture now, which is a shame. Good luck to everyone that applies.
TL/DR; I suck at ATC, good luck everyone else.
I knew that I wanted to do ATC for a long time, not necessarily straight out of school, but I mulled over it for a few years. I didn't however have the requirements. I completed all the hard maths and physics stuff at school, but because I didn't do English as a subject, I was ineligible. I stayed at my job for a while and got in to the routine, enjoyed it, loved my workmates, but needed more. I felt like I was going to waste. My mum and dad were both in aviation and I gradually i gravitated more and more towards something related. I felt like ATC was the most 'me'. I worked in a busy control room that required lots of pre-planning, thinking on your feet, strong mathematical aptitude. Nowhere near as high importance as moving aircraft around but I thought I had lots of skills that were quite transferrable.
So I decided to take the plunge. I thought to myself "you know what, I'm going to try and make this the best damn application possible". I considered the options and at the end of the day enrolled in a Bachelor of Aviation and concurrently trained for my PPL. I wanted to do absolutely everything I could to look impressive. You only get two shots after all. I even weighed up the fact that having a Pilot's licence might be a downfall (anecdotally it seems they get a lot of cocky pilots applying that think they should be given the job - however my attitude is certainly not cavalier). I didn't want to be a Pilot anyway. It's a nice gig, but it's not 'me'.
I did all the research possible I could on the job. I spoke to existing controllers, I visited towers and TCUs and spent hours in there just watching. They would ask me questions to see my knowledge of the job and I was met with 'Wow... Can you explain that to the rest of our team so that they can understand it better!'. I had so much fun in those visits and one of the towers made me promise them that I would come back there to work once I finished my training! I got a busniess card from one of the supervisors and he has been really nice and helpful to me throughout.
I spent three years at uni, dropping to part-time at work, and ended up getting the B. Aviation and PPL (a few hours off CPL) and submitted my application. The process was extremely tough but I felt I did really well. Got through the online tests, phone interview, an online OPQ and made it through to the assessment centre. I was relieved but at the same time, I know I never have any problems with those psychometric-type exercises.
The assessment day was tough. Everyone here that has attended one knows it's not a walk in the park. It's a long day in the sense that they are testing you in many different ways and besides the exhaustion, you're bloody nervous. Notwithstanding all of this I though I did ok. My schedule for the day said I had my ATC simulation session dead last. Something which I wish I had the ability to change and do all over again.
After a very nervous few weeks, I got the notification that I was unsuccessful. My feedback was that I seemed to do ok in everything except I dropped a couple of points in the simulator. I knew I hadn't done as well as I knew I could, but I was confident I had done enough. I was really really surprised, but you just have to trust the controllers that are judging you. You really have to be at 100% for the whole day and unfortunately due to the restless night of worrying the day beforehand, I started the day on a good foot, but by the end, I was just plain tired. Not so much mentally fatigued, but literally tired.
I had a really nice lady on the phone give me my feedback. She said to me that because I was so close, she strongly recommended that I apply again in 12 months time. This definitely gave me hope and I became more determined than ever.
Flash forward to 12 months later (to the day): I rang Airservices HR and just wanted to ask a few questions about putting in my second application and just wanted some general advice on things to highlight given it was my final shot. Now, I'm not going to comment on anyone personally, but let's give the benefit of the doubt and say this person was having a very bad day. I spoke to someone who was so short and rude to me and said (verbatim) "If I was you, I wouldn't even bother". I was completely amazed and devastated. I was told that 'pilot's dont make good controllers' and 'assessment centres were too expensive, so we don't take people on their second application usually'. Finally, I asked why someone 12 months prior strongly recommended me to reapply, she said 'I don't know. If it was up to me - I'd say no'.
So now to today. It's been several years since that last phone call and I've only really had the courage to write anything about it now. I don't feel angry at the fairly merciless feedback, just more disappointed that I didn't quite get over the line on that assessment day. I feel a bit like my dream is shattered now and I'm back working the same job, just with a useless degree and PPL. Sorry to end on such a melancholy note, but I think it's important that people know that sometimes not everything goes to plan and just make sure that you have things in your life that can fill the void if your dream doesn't work out! I think I'm done with this venture now, which is a shame. Good luck to everyone that applies.
TL/DR; I suck at ATC, good luck everyone else.
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DMC sorry to hear of your experience. HR understand process but have no real knowledge of ATC, and the second person you spoke to gave you information based on assumed knowledge which was not terribly factual.
It is true that pilots do not have any advantage over other candidates when it comes to the practical application of doing air traffic control but if accepted to training they have as much chance of success as anyone else.
If you truly feel committed to doing ATC then I would suggest giving it a second try. It is a tough gig and it may not be successful but at least you will know.
One thing in your post which is good advice, to paraphrase, is for people to have a "back up plan". Success is never assured and there are a number of trainees who either do not make it through the Academy or fail in the field when the workload and complexity steps up . In relation to your age, although there is no restriction, if you are over 35 then your chances of success are diminished and if 40 the success rate is less than 5%! As you said in your post not wanting to be melancholy, just factual.
Good luck with whatever you choose in life.
Footnote: I have been involved for over 37 years.
It is true that pilots do not have any advantage over other candidates when it comes to the practical application of doing air traffic control but if accepted to training they have as much chance of success as anyone else.
If you truly feel committed to doing ATC then I would suggest giving it a second try. It is a tough gig and it may not be successful but at least you will know.
One thing in your post which is good advice, to paraphrase, is for people to have a "back up plan". Success is never assured and there are a number of trainees who either do not make it through the Academy or fail in the field when the workload and complexity steps up . In relation to your age, although there is no restriction, if you are over 35 then your chances of success are diminished and if 40 the success rate is less than 5%! As you said in your post not wanting to be melancholy, just factual.
Good luck with whatever you choose in life.
Footnote: I have been involved for over 37 years.
DMC,
What an impressive post? As I was reading I was hoping for the positive outcome however not to be? Your honestly is breathtaking, I wish you well but I ask you one question? Are you better to know definitely? That is, apply a second time and find out one way or the other? Or can you sit back comfortable with what the last HR person said?
Been in the job for 36 years, its a great gig, not for everyone.
What an impressive post? As I was reading I was hoping for the positive outcome however not to be? Your honestly is breathtaking, I wish you well but I ask you one question? Are you better to know definitely? That is, apply a second time and find out one way or the other? Or can you sit back comfortable with what the last HR person said?
Been in the job for 36 years, its a great gig, not for everyone.
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DMC, sorry to hear about your experience. I've been lurking on this forum a bit lately and have noticed a fair number of people who have gotten through on their second attempt. If I were you I'd apply again. There's a reason they allow 2 attempts, it must be worth the cost to find the right people. Don't be disheartened, one person's opinion doesn't decide the outcome.
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DMC
I failed my first assessment day pretty badly.. Got 1/5, 2/5 etc for all of the sim exercises which I thought I excelled in!
Second time around, I didn't change much in all honesty - I did have a bit more determination, confidence and life experience but I passed it second time with no worries. So don't despair, have another crack because otherwise you will never know!
I failed my first assessment day pretty badly.. Got 1/5, 2/5 etc for all of the sim exercises which I thought I excelled in!
Second time around, I didn't change much in all honesty - I did have a bit more determination, confidence and life experience but I passed it second time with no worries. So don't despair, have another crack because otherwise you will never know!
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For those who have completed a medical via MRS, in your experience how strict is the 'all medication from the last 4 years' part of the requirement? Do they require you to provide medical records from all GPs/specialists, or is it enough to just list educated guesses (eg I was on Amoxicillin early 2013, will they require exact dates or will a month suffice)?
Last edited by APB11; 4th Jul 2016 at 23:17. Reason: typo
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APB11,
CASA medical are a pain in the arse atm!
I believe the current delay for initial medicals is approximately three months unless you can put some urgency on it... I.E. impending job starting within a month! (fictitious or not)
As for the MRS, your DAME will have to write off everything that you put in here. Put it in as best as you remember and have a good answer when with your dame. This part becomes time-consuming more than anything. Be careful about saying you have Panadol or Neurofen as even once every week or two could cause additional testing.
Not that I would ever suggest lying to CASA, but the opinion of tell them as little as possible is an industry standard for a reason!
CASA medical are a pain in the arse atm!
I believe the current delay for initial medicals is approximately three months unless you can put some urgency on it... I.E. impending job starting within a month! (fictitious or not)
As for the MRS, your DAME will have to write off everything that you put in here. Put it in as best as you remember and have a good answer when with your dame. This part becomes time-consuming more than anything. Be careful about saying you have Panadol or Neurofen as even once every week or two could cause additional testing.
Not that I would ever suggest lying to CASA, but the opinion of tell them as little as possible is an industry standard for a reason!
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DMC,
Wow sounds like you just had a bad run mate!
I know it can be disheartening when someone who is obviously not having a good day tells you not to bother. That would have hurt, but mate, you really should just give it one more crack!
I'm another case of pilot/extensive aviation background/mid 30's second time through the assessment centre and I made the cut. All I'm trying to say is, by all means, have a backup plan, but if it was your dream job and something you really truly wanted, screw the HR department and give it your best! you get a second chance for a reason and hey you never know, you just might make it.... isn't that worth the risk???
Wow sounds like you just had a bad run mate!
I know it can be disheartening when someone who is obviously not having a good day tells you not to bother. That would have hurt, but mate, you really should just give it one more crack!
I'm another case of pilot/extensive aviation background/mid 30's second time through the assessment centre and I made the cut. All I'm trying to say is, by all means, have a backup plan, but if it was your dream job and something you really truly wanted, screw the HR department and give it your best! you get a second chance for a reason and hey you never know, you just might make it.... isn't that worth the risk???
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Medicals
Can definitely second that CASA are very behind at the moment and taking longer than usual, recommend getting your examination done as early as possible and follow up regularly with CASA.
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Good article! Wow 400 applications waiting for 8 weeks or more as they need to provide additional info......
Would be great if casa contacted them to let them know!!!
Hang in there guys, you will get your medicals eventually
Would be great if casa contacted them to let them know!!!
Hang in there guys, you will get your medicals eventually