Irish ATC wages/conditions
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well rocky01.....my thoughts exactly.....I wish somebody would get their skates on whether it be the union or management...both are making it very difficult for staff...WE NEED CONTROLLERS....GET A BLOODY MOVE ON....Most providers have similar experiences getting controllers and negotiating contracts, with one major difference...they get on with it....the Irish just.....seem.....to.....lounge....about and.....sure....everything will....sort ......itself out.....in.........due time!!!! Now where was I??????
The IAA MUST know they have to be competeitive to get controllers in the door....the weather in this place is already crap, offer a good deal similar to other providers and at least your in with some sort of a chance....
The IAA MUST know they have to be competeitive to get controllers in the door....the weather in this place is already crap, offer a good deal similar to other providers and at least your in with some sort of a chance....
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If there is a real need for direct entry ATCOs, why is the union making it so hard to agree a contract for them?
Surely it's members will benefit from the extra staff....sooner is better than later. no?
I was told that there were several vacancies in EIDW, for all sectors, is this true?
Surely it's members will benefit from the extra staff....sooner is better than later. no?I was told that there were several vacancies in EIDW, for all sectors, is this true?
Can't see why the IAA needs contract staff AND an intake of students, why not offer permanant direct entry positions to suitably qualified staff and save a fortune on training cadets?
There are staff shortages in Dublin, though why you would want to work a cycle of 6/3, 6/3, 7/2 I'll never know (that is the proposed roster from management)
Add that to the derisory Labour Court pay ruling (5% plus a third party ruling on the value of ongoing change) and the inevitable assault on the pension (it will be coming) and its a great place to work so it is...
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Depends on the conditions under which you join...there is a real fear that direct entry contract staff could be used to undermine industrial action taken by union members for example...
Can't see why the IAA needs contract staff AND an intake of students
There are staff shortages in Dublin, though why you would want to work a cycle of 6/3, 6/3, 7/2 I'll never know (that is the proposed roster from management)
Add that to the derisory Labour Court pay ruling (5% plus a third party ruling on the value of ongoing change) and the inevitable assault on the pension (it will be coming) and its a great place to work so it is...
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I think what irishatco forgot to mention is that the union and staff have said that they were understaffed for quite some time but management disagreed. Also the staff were asked to take on extra airspace, new roosters etc in return for payments and other deals which apparently the IAA have conveniently forgotten about. The IAA and the union seem to be permanently in the labour court.
Unfortunately the IAA have the attitiude that controllers are just a drain on their finances. Now it has come to the stage where peole are starting to leave(I being one of them), there are also a few female controllers who are pregnant and will be on maternity leave for the busy summer period and traffic is also way up. Anyone with a bit of common sense would have seen it coming.....but there lies the problem with the IAA. I also don't think they care just how fed up staff are with the way they are treated. Having talked to a few old colleagues lately I'm surprised just how many are thinking of jumping ship.
Unfortunately the IAA have the attitiude that controllers are just a drain on their finances. Now it has come to the stage where peole are starting to leave(I being one of them), there are also a few female controllers who are pregnant and will be on maternity leave for the busy summer period and traffic is also way up. Anyone with a bit of common sense would have seen it coming.....but there lies the problem with the IAA. I also don't think they care just how fed up staff are with the way they are treated. Having talked to a few old colleagues lately I'm surprised just how many are thinking of jumping ship.
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I also don't think they care just how fed up staff are with the way they are treated. Having talked to a few old colleagues lately I'm surprised just how many are thinking of jumping ship.
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I get the sense that the union doesn't want contractors to come in on inflated contracts- is that correct? (because if it isn't, then disregard all that follows).
I can understand a union wanting to protect conditions of employment (hour limits etc). However, wouldn't it be a good tactic to prompt the IAA to offer way more money than the current staff are on (if they are serious about getting the bodies they need) to contractors. Then sit beside these contractors (who are on way more money) for twelve months. Then sit down with the bosses and open negotiations for retaining your own staff with "well, sir, these contractors, thats all fine and dandy, but if you want to retain us permanent staff, lets talk about parity....."
It always amuses me when people think the way forward is to stop other people getting something, when it might be better to assist other people to get something, and then ask for the same in return. Or am I barking up the wrong tree?
I can understand a union wanting to protect conditions of employment (hour limits etc). However, wouldn't it be a good tactic to prompt the IAA to offer way more money than the current staff are on (if they are serious about getting the bodies they need) to contractors. Then sit beside these contractors (who are on way more money) for twelve months. Then sit down with the bosses and open negotiations for retaining your own staff with "well, sir, these contractors, thats all fine and dandy, but if you want to retain us permanent staff, lets talk about parity....."
It always amuses me when people think the way forward is to stop other people getting something, when it might be better to assist other people to get something, and then ask for the same in return. Or am I barking up the wrong tree?
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"It always amuses me when people think the way forward is to stop other people getting something, when it might be better to assist other people to get something, and then ask for the same in return. Or am I barking up the wrong tree?"...
Nope...your dead right there ferris....but we've been burned doing this before....We the controllers assisted the IAA in a number of things like NOTA (airspace we got from Her Majesty), Licencing, Approaches moving to Dublin, including staff moving...the list can go on. The IAA promised us a pay hike in return...ahemmmmmm...donde esta? Did it fall off the radar???? So we are a little apprehensive about doin anything like this again....promises, promises, promises...ehhh
Nope...your dead right there ferris....but we've been burned doing this before....We the controllers assisted the IAA in a number of things like NOTA (airspace we got from Her Majesty), Licencing, Approaches moving to Dublin, including staff moving...the list can go on. The IAA promised us a pay hike in return...ahemmmmmm...donde esta? Did it fall off the radar???? So we are a little apprehensive about doin anything like this again....promises, promises, promises...ehhh
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There's a big difference between doing something to help out management in the expectation that they will fix you up later, and doing something to help yourselves.
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Well, ...well....
Some really interesting insights there my friends.
As an outsider trying to get in, those last few posts are very telling.
Seems to me that politics rules, and logic takes a back seat.
I for one, would loath being taken on, on a higher salary (albeit temporary contract etc...) than those already there. I imagine the atmosphere would stink pretty soon among permanent staff. Its only human (Irish)!!! to begrudge others better conditions.
As for the shifts, well they do appear onorous, but the unions no doubt had a hand in their development at some stage, so no point in bitchin' about them here. Anyway, is there no leeway among the teams, to ease the pressure?
Any other thoughts would be welcome. For now, the advice seems to be keep away, but are there any agendas being played out on this thread folks?
Regards
Sylvester
"Own nav is best"
As an outsider trying to get in, those last few posts are very telling.
Seems to me that politics rules, and logic takes a back seat.
I for one, would loath being taken on, on a higher salary (albeit temporary contract etc...) than those already there. I imagine the atmosphere would stink pretty soon among permanent staff. Its only human (Irish)!!! to begrudge others better conditions.
As for the shifts, well they do appear onorous, but the unions no doubt had a hand in their development at some stage, so no point in bitchin' about them here. Anyway, is there no leeway among the teams, to ease the pressure?
Any other thoughts would be welcome. For now, the advice seems to be keep away, but are there any agendas being played out on this thread folks?
Regards
Sylvester
"Own nav is best"
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There's a big difference between doing something to help out management in the expectation that they will fix you up later,
Have that T-shirt.
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Ferris and Track Coastal are right...What I was trying to get across is that we would simply be looking out for new entry controllers both cadets and direct...We don't want to see newcomers end up with a bum deal only to come in and bring morale down even further. Contracts, both existing and new HAVE to be protected....the IAA already want to look at pensions....Well I'm sorry, they ain't touchin mine!!
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I have no doubt that any management would see contractors as a method of making productivity gains, and the union is very correct in ensuring that any new contract doesn't undermine conditions.
Use the same tactics. Use new contracts as a way of improving remuneration (permanent remuneration). Especially if the contracting process turns into a farce (which it will if they dont offer the right money). Just think about whether denying contractors more money works for you, or against you.....
* I am not a potential candidate at the current offer, and nor is anyone else that I am in contact with.
Gu'luck.
Use the same tactics. Use new contracts as a way of improving remuneration (permanent remuneration). Especially if the contracting process turns into a farce (which it will if they dont offer the right money). Just think about whether denying contractors more money works for you, or against you.....
* I am not a potential candidate at the current offer, and nor is anyone else that I am in contact with.
Gu'luck.
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I get the sense that the union doesn't want contractors to come in on inflated contracts- is that correct?
The union were happy to negotiate on the basis that direct entry controllers would join the existing pay scale at a suitable point (and I've yet to hear anyone suggest that's at point 1) and asked the IAA why they couldn't offer permanent positions to the incoming staff.
The company cannot make its mind up whether single person sectors will happen in the coming years, and so won't make any concrete decisions. What the union do not want to see happen is 3 year contracts being offered, then renewed for another 3 years...and so on, and so on...
Use the same tactics. Use new contracts as a way of improving remuneration (permanent remuneration).
As for the shifts, well they do appear onorous, but the unions no doubt had a hand in their development at some stage, so no point in bitchin' about them here
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Ok then...
badback
Thanks for that. I for one do not wish to have an uncertain future, no more than anyone else I suspect. So, long term permanent will always beat "3 year contract" any day.
As for the roster, from previous experience, management will always chip away at perceived staff benefits, it's their "raison d'etre" so to speak. So, I support any union action to protect pay and conditions.
I shall, of course, watch the small print in any contract offered. Question is, will there be any offers soon, to those of us interested?
My thanks for the numerous contributers to this thread.
Regards,
Sylvester
"Own nav is best"
Thanks for that. I for one do not wish to have an uncertain future, no more than anyone else I suspect. So, long term permanent will always beat "3 year contract" any day.
As for the roster, from previous experience, management will always chip away at perceived staff benefits, it's their "raison d'etre" so to speak. So, I support any union action to protect pay and conditions.
I shall, of course, watch the small print in any contract offered. Question is, will there be any offers soon, to those of us interested?
My thanks for the numerous contributers to this thread.
Regards,
Sylvester
"Own nav is best"
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In response to Rocky - I received the response below when I emailed the "careers" link on the IAA site. hope this helps..
Thank you for your expression of interest in a position as an Air Traffic Controller with the Irish Aviation Authority.
The Authority is currently proceeding with the recruitment of a number of 3-year fixed-term contract posts for rated Air Traffic Controllers. These posts will be full-time operational posts on shift rotation.We will not offer permanent employment on completion of the contract.
If you wish to be considered for such a contract please confirm your interest by return attaching an updated CV giving a brief outline of your rating and controller career history. Please also indicate your expectation in relation to remuneration for this position.
Thank you for your expression of interest in a position as an Air Traffic Controller with the Irish Aviation Authority.
The Authority is currently proceeding with the recruitment of a number of 3-year fixed-term contract posts for rated Air Traffic Controllers. These posts will be full-time operational posts on shift rotation.We will not offer permanent employment on completion of the contract.
If you wish to be considered for such a contract please confirm your interest by return attaching an updated CV giving a brief outline of your rating and controller career history. Please also indicate your expectation in relation to remuneration for this position.
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Thanks rack n stack,
That's exactly the email and letter I received myself back in early December,
since then....nothing.
Depends on your interpretation of "soon" in IAA parlance I suppose....
Ah well...back to the grindstone......
Sylvester
"own nav is best"
That's exactly the email and letter I received myself back in early December,
since then....nothing.
Depends on your interpretation of "soon" in IAA parlance I suppose....
Ah well...back to the grindstone......
Sylvester
"own nav is best"
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Can't really say...
Yaweh,
Is there any way I can answer that without giving the game away?
Don't think so!
Ok then, I used to work at ......, and I now work at......
Clever eh???
...
...
Is there any way I can answer that without giving the game away?
Don't think so!
Ok then, I used to work at ...
..., and I now work at......Clever eh???
......
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bumping the topic, 10 years is a long enough moratorium!
So - hi guys, anyone here with any information about recent IAA notice about Direct Entry for Dublin Terminal?
Also, how have things changed for ATCOs in IAA in tha last 10 years, a lot of stuff has happened since, LoL
P.S.: first post!
So - hi guys, anyone here with any information about recent IAA notice about Direct Entry for Dublin Terminal?
Also, how have things changed for ATCOs in IAA in tha last 10 years, a lot of stuff has happened since, LoL
P.S.: first post!