College Pass Rate
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For background reading then may be. It is a fairly dry document that needs explaining in many places.
I think you'd gain far more from visiting a unit and doing some more general research.
I think you'd gain far more from visiting a unit and doing some more general research.
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Well I currently work in the RAF as an assistant and have about 4 years experience, which is why I feel it is a big risk. Do you know if ex civil/military assistants tend to perform better/worse than an ab initio?
I think maybe I'm worrying too much.
I think maybe I'm worrying too much.
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Not from the UK but there is some advice that is relevant the world over.
As a trainee ATCO, venturing out into a Centre or Tower for your Sim Course and then OJT, show respect for the rated guys, remember that you are not in a position to be a smart arse until you have a license, and while you are working on someone elses license listen to what they tell you. While popularity in a unit won't make up for lack of ability it certainly helps in line ball cases, so don't piss off the guys who may have to decide whether you stay or go.
Finally if you miss something, make a mistake or whatever, own up to it, learn from it and try not to do it again. This approach will win you a lot more respect than trying to blame someone else or trying to find excuses.
Oh yeah, almost forgot, if you are going to be five minutes late for a shift, call up say you will be ten minutes late and stop to get donuts (of course you should never be late for a shift as a trainee
)
Good luck into the future.
As a trainee ATCO, venturing out into a Centre or Tower for your Sim Course and then OJT, show respect for the rated guys, remember that you are not in a position to be a smart arse until you have a license, and while you are working on someone elses license listen to what they tell you. While popularity in a unit won't make up for lack of ability it certainly helps in line ball cases, so don't piss off the guys who may have to decide whether you stay or go.
Finally if you miss something, make a mistake or whatever, own up to it, learn from it and try not to do it again. This approach will win you a lot more respect than trying to blame someone else or trying to find excuses.
Oh yeah, almost forgot, if you are going to be five minutes late for a shift, call up say you will be ten minutes late and stop to get donuts (of course you should never be late for a shift as a trainee
)Good luck into the future.
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Hey Pete,
You asked if anyone else has taken this risk. I have just got through the 3rd stage, should be starting college in June/July. I currently work in a good job in London, good wage, good prospects etc however it just isn't something I want to do for the rest of my life! I took a long time deciding whether or not to take the risk of possibly not getting through the college or validation, in reality this helped me a lot as it showed me how much I really wanted to get the job.
If I don't get through any stage then so be it, at least I tried!
You asked if anyone else has taken this risk. I have just got through the 3rd stage, should be starting college in June/July. I currently work in a good job in London, good wage, good prospects etc however it just isn't something I want to do for the rest of my life! I took a long time deciding whether or not to take the risk of possibly not getting through the college or validation, in reality this helped me a lot as it showed me how much I really wanted to get the job.
If I don't get through any stage then so be it, at least I tried!
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Pete,
I'm an ex mil ATCO now with NATS.
What do you hope to achieve in the RAF as an assistant? I assume that if you stayed in you would try to go on to do JATCC? The way I see it is you have 2 options.
1. Try for your JATCC, if you fail yuo can always go back to being an assistant (though you may find this difficult to bear with regards to 'sense of pride' or 'image' - though you shouldn't). At least if you fail you still have your assistant job.
2. Apply for NATS, see if you get in, then make the jump. If you fail, you will need to look at other avenues.
Going for point 1 above is a good idea if you like the services lifestyle, though the money and time off is nowhere near as good as NATS. However if you succeed at JATCC, then decide in a few years time that you want to go civvy, be advised that you will still have to jump through all the hoops as if you were an ab-initio.
There are numerous instances of mil ATCOS failing even the initial stage tests, or failing further down the line. Not because civvy controllers are any better, but because the tests are different than those at Cranwell, and also the type of controlling is vastly different, with a totally different mindset.
These differences are often quite difficult to overcome once you have been a valid mil ATCO for some time, it would be exactly the same scenario going from civvy to mil, though obviously that's not a well trodden route! Also, you will be that bit older when you try to do the course, which never makes it easier.
Whatever you decide, don't get hung up on statistics - they are after all just numbers. Although teamwork is integral to doing well on a course, it is how you do as an individual that decides whether you pass.... worrying that a lot of people might (and actually will) fail will not help you. If you are good enough you will succeed, regardless of statistics. If you want the job enough, you will apply and leave the safety net of the forces, and take what is admittedly, a bit of a risk.
It's worth it in the end, good luck with whatever you do
I'm an ex mil ATCO now with NATS.
What do you hope to achieve in the RAF as an assistant? I assume that if you stayed in you would try to go on to do JATCC? The way I see it is you have 2 options.
1. Try for your JATCC, if you fail yuo can always go back to being an assistant (though you may find this difficult to bear with regards to 'sense of pride' or 'image' - though you shouldn't). At least if you fail you still have your assistant job.
2. Apply for NATS, see if you get in, then make the jump. If you fail, you will need to look at other avenues.
Going for point 1 above is a good idea if you like the services lifestyle, though the money and time off is nowhere near as good as NATS. However if you succeed at JATCC, then decide in a few years time that you want to go civvy, be advised that you will still have to jump through all the hoops as if you were an ab-initio.
There are numerous instances of mil ATCOS failing even the initial stage tests, or failing further down the line. Not because civvy controllers are any better, but because the tests are different than those at Cranwell, and also the type of controlling is vastly different, with a totally different mindset.
These differences are often quite difficult to overcome once you have been a valid mil ATCO for some time, it would be exactly the same scenario going from civvy to mil, though obviously that's not a well trodden route! Also, you will be that bit older when you try to do the course, which never makes it easier.
Whatever you decide, don't get hung up on statistics - they are after all just numbers. Although teamwork is integral to doing well on a course, it is how you do as an individual that decides whether you pass.... worrying that a lot of people might (and actually will) fail will not help you. If you are good enough you will succeed, regardless of statistics. If you want the job enough, you will apply and leave the safety net of the forces, and take what is admittedly, a bit of a risk.
It's worth it in the end, good luck with whatever you do
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At the risk of sounding positive.....(!)
We were told when we started the Basic course in September that previous basic courses had a 50% or lower pass mark. 85% of us passed. These figures really don't mean a thing - if everybody on the course has the ability to be an ATCO, the pass rate will be 100%. It really depends who's on the course as to what the figures will be.
That said, it's a long road to validation, and you have to be extremely committed to succeeding and working hard, but it's not unachievable. Like many, I gave up a good job to come to NATS too, and I've taken the approach that I'm going to work as hard as I can, put in the hours, do my absolute best, and if I don't make it, it won't be for lack of effort!
So don't look at the figures alone - they're only part of the story.
We were told when we started the Basic course in September that previous basic courses had a 50% or lower pass mark. 85% of us passed. These figures really don't mean a thing - if everybody on the course has the ability to be an ATCO, the pass rate will be 100%. It really depends who's on the course as to what the figures will be.
That said, it's a long road to validation, and you have to be extremely committed to succeeding and working hard, but it's not unachievable. Like many, I gave up a good job to come to NATS too, and I've taken the approach that I'm going to work as hard as I can, put in the hours, do my absolute best, and if I don't make it, it won't be for lack of effort!
So don't look at the figures alone - they're only part of the story.
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Cheers for the responses
I am on the fast-track controller scheme with the RAF, so yes, would go on JATCC within the next 1-2 years. But realising that Mil experience doesn't really count for much in the civil world, I would rather join NATS now.
I'm just gonna go for it (if i get in!), don't want to have a massive regret on my mind for the rest of my life
Thanks again
I am on the fast-track controller scheme with the RAF, so yes, would go on JATCC within the next 1-2 years. But realising that Mil experience doesn't really count for much in the civil world, I would rather join NATS now.
I'm just gonna go for it (if i get in!), don't want to have a massive regret on my mind for the rest of my life
Thanks again
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Pete,
I was merely talking about NATS in my above post. You could of course do JATCC, then 2 or 3 tours in the Mil, enjoying the lifestyle (insomuch as you can nowadays), then self fund yourself through a non NATS college.
Although still risky, you would then be in a strong position to apply for a non NATS job. Once you have your foot in the door, there is no telling what might happen.
Mil experience does not count for much when you are in a very strict and regimented training regime such as at Hurn, (you will find a fair few of the instructors are a bit set in their ways, have less of a 'can do' attitude and are actually less flexible in their thinking), but once it comes to validation training and beyond, any experience will hold you in good stead.
The maturity you will (most likely) have gained in the forces will also be a plus point at all stages.
I was merely talking about NATS in my above post. You could of course do JATCC, then 2 or 3 tours in the Mil, enjoying the lifestyle (insomuch as you can nowadays), then self fund yourself through a non NATS college.
Although still risky, you would then be in a strong position to apply for a non NATS job. Once you have your foot in the door, there is no telling what might happen.
Mil experience does not count for much when you are in a very strict and regimented training regime such as at Hurn, (you will find a fair few of the instructors are a bit set in their ways, have less of a 'can do' attitude and are actually less flexible in their thinking), but once it comes to validation training and beyond, any experience will hold you in good stead.
The maturity you will (most likely) have gained in the forces will also be a plus point at all stages.
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Entry Point North
Hey!
Doing the basic module at Entry Point North (Scandinavian ATS college), and I think passrate here is roughly 75-90%...Concerning validation numbers I have no clue (first guy that went from EPN -> OJT validated for about a month ago)....
Cheers
TH
Doing the basic module at Entry Point North (Scandinavian ATS college), and I think passrate here is roughly 75-90%...Concerning validation numbers I have no clue (first guy that went from EPN -> OJT validated for about a month ago)....
Cheers
TH
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the courses change that much, and the rules on re-courses etc and how things are examined, its hard to determine the average pass rate, it seems it not just down to the make up of the students on the course but what is the latest "idea" on how the courses are run. but The college is probably harder than validation, but then saying that, if the college get it really wrong then what gets put out of there could be a lower standard and struggle to validate, or leave the units to make up the lack of knowledge and skill more, which would be very unit dependant on how good/time that would be done.
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Success rates
Ah, back in my day zzzzzzzzzzz, out of 60 on my course NATS got 15 valid controllers, 25% success is fairly accurate but as many posts have said you can either do it or you can't. Every student that goes through any ATC training establishment has been identified as having the potential to become an ATCO but as any valid ATCO knows, that does not mean they will all make it in the end. Its a long road to validation but you will reap the rewards if successful. Good luck!
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My course started with 28....26 passed aerodrome.The 2 that failed? 1 is an assistant. the other a tower controller(non nats). 6 went on to do tower(nats) 5 are valid/1 now an assistant. Of the 20 remaining that did area we lost 6(3 now tower atco's, 1 assistant, 2 resigned)
14 went on to unit training. 8 are now valid, 1 now a tower atco and 5 still training. Each course is different some have higher/lower pass rates and medical/compassionate recourses as well. But if you go through the numbers, in general the majority are still working for the company albeit different roles. The key is if you work hard you will get through. If you don't you can look back and say you gave it your best shot.
14 went on to unit training. 8 are now valid, 1 now a tower atco and 5 still training. Each course is different some have higher/lower pass rates and medical/compassionate recourses as well. But if you go through the numbers, in general the majority are still working for the company albeit different roles. The key is if you work hard you will get through. If you don't you can look back and say you gave it your best shot.
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Ryan, i just wondered in your post whether the 7 people you referred to included the people like me who were put on business holds?? that increases the 'no fail' slightly and makes it seem not as bad, as there were 4 of us put onto business hold from the 211 foundation course and we all just passed foundation with no failure as of yet!! P.S Good luck with advanced summatives, and wish all the other guys good luck too. See you a week on Monday! x