Radio failure
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Join Date: Apr 2000
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Radio failure
Just a question to atc controllers
Lets say i depart lgw with destination somwhere in greece. After T/O on initial contact i realise i have a complete radio failure. As far as i know you expect me to continue to destination following flight plan levels and restrictions. What do you do in that case?
Lets say i depart lgw with destination somwhere in greece. After T/O on initial contact i realise i have a complete radio failure. As far as i know you expect me to continue to destination following flight plan levels and restrictions. What do you do in that case?
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Ho-Ho-Ho Merry Christmas!
I'd echo the above. The general rule I'd apply is there's no rule. Expect anything and all that. Yes the book would say that you should follow the SID, then after 3 or 7 minutes depending on whether you were on a heading or your own nav climb to your Flight Planned Level etc. But basically as soon as the controller believes you have suffered an RT failure they'd be trying desperately to get traffic out of your way. And yes a possible U-turn and return to origin would be half expected too.
I would emphasize though that it's 'as soon as the controller' gets the message, so I would ALWAYS prefer you to 7600 asap and then common sense and an awareness of the procedures should allow for a safe flight either to your destination or return to origin.
In line with the above I'd hope for a moderate ROC or descent so that we can make an educated guess of your intentions and give us a fighting chance of maintaining separation from everyone else. Having said that, keep a good look-out, be aware of your TCAS, try all means of comms, 121.5, mobile etc. And if you're 7600'ing for a while don't be surprised if you are joined by a friendly fighter!
That's my sixpence worth anyway, gotta grab myself a whiskey! Happy Christmas to you all and bad luck if you're working (or stranded) tomorrow, it was me last year.
Have a good one!
I'd echo the above. The general rule I'd apply is there's no rule. Expect anything and all that. Yes the book would say that you should follow the SID, then after 3 or 7 minutes depending on whether you were on a heading or your own nav climb to your Flight Planned Level etc. But basically as soon as the controller believes you have suffered an RT failure they'd be trying desperately to get traffic out of your way. And yes a possible U-turn and return to origin would be half expected too.
I would emphasize though that it's 'as soon as the controller' gets the message, so I would ALWAYS prefer you to 7600 asap and then common sense and an awareness of the procedures should allow for a safe flight either to your destination or return to origin.
In line with the above I'd hope for a moderate ROC or descent so that we can make an educated guess of your intentions and give us a fighting chance of maintaining separation from everyone else. Having said that, keep a good look-out, be aware of your TCAS, try all means of comms, 121.5, mobile etc. And if you're 7600'ing for a while don't be surprised if you are joined by a friendly fighter!
That's my sixpence worth anyway, gotta grab myself a whiskey! Happy Christmas to you all and bad luck if you're working (or stranded) tomorrow, it was me last year.
Have a good one!
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I would agree with the previous posters - (we move all traffic concerned out of their way of course )- emphasizing the A7600 setting !!!
You won't believe how often it happens(having in mind relative numbers for such events of course ) that the previous sector informs us they didn't have the radio contact with an aircraft and eventually some time later that A/C calls in either on our or the following sector frequency, after a few hundred miles flown without talking to anyone and the A7600 hasn't been set. It's beyond my understanding how the crew in such cases doesn't notice something is "wrong" and they don't notice ATC addressing on guard frequency either .
Merry Xmas and safe skies
1999
You won't believe how often it happens(having in mind relative numbers for such events of course ) that the previous sector informs us they didn't have the radio contact with an aircraft and eventually some time later that A/C calls in either on our or the following sector frequency, after a few hundred miles flown without talking to anyone and the A7600 hasn't been set. It's beyond my understanding how the crew in such cases doesn't notice something is "wrong" and they don't notice ATC addressing on guard frequency either .
Merry Xmas and safe skies
1999
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In the current (and for the foreseeable future) security scenario, the published Comms Failure procedures are effectively redundant, in Europe at least. It must be almost certain that before too long you'll find a Typhoon/Mirage/F-16 very close to your wingtip (and another that you won't see about half a mile behind you!).
In the event of a complete comms failure, simply follow the aforementioned escort. Take your headset off and wave it at him with a thumbs down sign, or write "7600" very bold on a sheet of paper and show it at the window; but don't even think of ignoring instructions or turning away from him. The national variations to Comms Fail procedure really no longer exist - just follow the fighter.
In the event of a complete comms failure, simply follow the aforementioned escort. Take your headset off and wave it at him with a thumbs down sign, or write "7600" very bold on a sheet of paper and show it at the window; but don't even think of ignoring instructions or turning away from him. The national variations to Comms Fail procedure really no longer exist - just follow the fighter.
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As stated above, Squawking 7600 will highlight your plight, D&D will try and contact you on 121.5. Your sat phone works indepently of your radios and in the situation you described, you should phone D&D on the published number. You can then state your intensions and the wheels will grind into motion. This number is valid throughout the world and yes it has been used by aircraft well outside the UK FIR.
More than just an ATCO
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By now it must be SOP at almost every ATC unit worldwide to inform Air Defense of traffic in Radio Failure. They then make the call whether or not to intercept.
Loads of complaints in NL several weeks ago when 2 F16s were trying to find a chopper which had infringed the Amsterdam TMA whilst in RF. Loads of peoples post Sunday lunch afternoon delight was disturbed.
Loads of complaints in NL several weeks ago when 2 F16s were trying to find a chopper which had infringed the Amsterdam TMA whilst in RF. Loads of peoples post Sunday lunch afternoon delight was disturbed.
Yep Sat Phone! Normally D&D just get Quantas guys ringing up trying to book their hotels and late meals (not deliberately BTW - just a mis-dial) so it would be good for more people to know what the thing is for. Good point Pimpernel! If Diddly Dee's about maybe you guys could think of highlighting that information within the AIP better? Change it's current location within the document?
