Annoying RT
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 4,432
Likes: 33
From: LHR/EGLL
If an aircraft near a departure holding point tells me he's not ready for departure, I'd like to know the reason: If it's for the cabin then I can reasonably expect it to be ready in the next few minutes, if it's for final figures then I might consider moving it out the way to another holding point to enable a/c behind to get to the runway. Likewise for a technical issue or possible bag discrenpancy, also in those cases I might warn Ground that the aircraft might be returning to the terminal.
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: kastela
Hold short of ... is standard phraseology,the only problem is that 70% of pilots do not know what the he.. that means,therefore, I am not using that phrase,because YOU DON'T KNOOOOW ! Education ,RHAG,education ...
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 269
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From: In the rain
Heard this the other day...
ATC: Propflier 9876 expect further climb in about 10 miles due crossing traffic descending to 1000ft above.
Propflier: Roger, expecting further climb due ... err ... in 10 miles ... for crossing traffic ... um ... 1000ft above us Propflier 9876.
Meanwhile we are about to hit our clearance limit waiting to call in on the frequency.
As an aside Jeppesen says the following about calling for P/S in Heathrow:
S.
ATC: Propflier 9876 expect further climb in about 10 miles due crossing traffic descending to 1000ft above.
Propflier: Roger, expecting further climb due ... err ... in 10 miles ... for crossing traffic ... um ... 1000ft above us Propflier 9876.
Meanwhile we are about to hit our clearance limit waiting to call in on the frequency.
As an aside Jeppesen says the following about calling for P/S in Heathrow:
Phraseology should be: callsign, ACFT type, stand number, ATIS letter, QNH and "fully ready, request start-up"
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,814
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From: Euroland
I heard this the other day:
APP Controller: N...XX. Be careful of the base of controlled airspace at FL65.
Pilot: Errrrrr...... Roger. Climbing to FL65. N...XX
APP Controller: FL65 is the BASE of controlled airspace. Remain below FL65.
APP Controller: N...XX. Be careful of the base of controlled airspace at FL65.
Pilot: Errrrrr...... Roger. Climbing to FL65. N...XX
APP Controller: FL65 is the BASE of controlled airspace. Remain below FL65.
Clearly in that case the N pilot was more aware of the situation than the controller!!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: London
if the base of controlled airspace is FL65 then an aircraft at FL65 is in uncontrolled airspace.
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,174
Likes: 5
From: South of England
Annex 11, 2.6:
"Note.— Where the ATS airspaces adjoin vertically, i.e. one above the other, flights at a common level would comply with requirements of, and be given services applicable to, the less restrictive class of airspace. In applying these criteria, Class B airspace is therefore considered less restrictive than Class A airspace; Class C airspace less restrictive than Class B airspace, etc."
2 s
"Note.— Where the ATS airspaces adjoin vertically, i.e. one above the other, flights at a common level would comply with requirements of, and be given services applicable to, the less restrictive class of airspace. In applying these criteria, Class B airspace is therefore considered less restrictive than Class A airspace; Class C airspace less restrictive than Class B airspace, etc."
2 s
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,486
Likes: 8
From: The No Transgression Zone
I think in the US "Squawk mode Charlie Charlie on the xpndr" is valid but why one controller insists on telling me that all the time is a mystery as I always put on the xpndr in mode C and they don't have ground radar,..
what really hate is when after touchdown and you are occupied the same twr controller gives fast turnoff instructions,...causes many students [solo] to stop on the runway only to be berated loudly,... in fact there's a youtube of this behavior
I don't know the guy in the Mooney,...but I know the Mooney involved
airport involved FRG
what really hate is when after touchdown and you are occupied the same twr controller gives fast turnoff instructions,...causes many students [solo] to stop on the runway only to be berated loudly,...
in fact there's a youtube of this behaviorI don't know the guy in the Mooney,...but I know the Mooney involved
airport involved FRG
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: Britain
WRT the 'fully ready' debate.
In the Geneva plates, it states that you should only ask for start when 'Fully Ready'.
Also, what about 'fully established'? you're either established on the localiser only or established (on the ILS).
In the Geneva plates, it states that you should only ask for start when 'Fully Ready'.
Also, what about 'fully established'? you're either established on the localiser only or established (on the ILS).
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 338
Likes: 17
From: London
@ Shrimp42;
I understand where your coming from with the "AND" phrase when using RT - i freely admit it is wrong, i will also admit i am one of the offenders of using it - i always think afterwards "why did i do that ?" and for some reason i can only conclude it is because it felt natural to me, albeit totally wrong for me to do so of course !! anyone else ??
I understand where your coming from with the "AND" phrase when using RT - i freely admit it is wrong, i will also admit i am one of the offenders of using it - i always think afterwards "why did i do that ?" and for some reason i can only conclude it is because it felt natural to me, albeit totally wrong for me to do so of course !! anyone else ??
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 417
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From: Scotland
Button-holders, whilst quite rare, are acutely irritating. When is someone in the training department of a Scottish regional airline that's been operating for 40 years, that now has Swedish aeroplanes, going to tell one of their Captains of the chaos he creates whenever he lingers over the PTT switch after he's finished speaking?
Busy ATC: "xxx123 climb FL 125"
xxx pilot: "climb FL125 xxx123.......pause....linger...(finally release switch)"
Busy ATC: "....tish Control 124.5"
xxx pilot silence..............
Busy ATC: "xxx123??"
xxx pilot "Go ahead xxx123..........pause....linger...(finally release switch)"
Busy ATC: "......oo four decimal five."
xxx pilot "Sorry was that for xxx123 contact 124.5?...(pause....linger etc.)"
Busy ATC: ....did reply but have finished the acknowledgement.
Meanwhile the rest of us have our ears fried by the constant two-stations-at-once DYOOOOOOOOOOO noise....
Busy ATC: "xxx123 climb FL 125"
xxx pilot: "climb FL125 xxx123.......pause....linger...(finally release switch)"
Busy ATC: "....tish Control 124.5"
xxx pilot silence..............
Busy ATC: "xxx123??"
xxx pilot "Go ahead xxx123..........pause....linger...(finally release switch)"
Busy ATC: "......oo four decimal five."
xxx pilot "Sorry was that for xxx123 contact 124.5?...(pause....linger etc.)"
Busy ATC: ....did reply but have finished the acknowledgement.
Meanwhile the rest of us have our ears fried by the constant two-stations-at-once DYOOOOOOOOOOO noise....
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
From: Zummerset
A couple of pet hates from "downstairs"
The controller who replies "correct" after every readback of a clearance from the pilot.
The London controllers who tell you on first contact, "ABC123 make your present heading a radar heading and after the vectors route REFSO, LAM, CPT for the BRS1C."
This has caused several problems with inexperienced crews unfamiliar with this type of clearance- why not just omit the "after the vectors" bit and when we are released from the vectors, just say "route direct LAM, CPT BRS1C etc?" We don't know at what point you are going to release us- it might be somewhere near CPT- we don't know. You will be surprised how many will miss the 'Radar Heading' bit and type in DCT LAM before being challenged by the Almighty!
Oh and I won't even get started on the "When established on the localiser, descend with the glidepath" which for a non-native speaker is like gobbledegook (believe me- I work with them- and they mostly struggle with this phrase). That is why you will often get the "cleared for the approach" reply to that one!
The controller who replies "correct" after every readback of a clearance from the pilot.
The London controllers who tell you on first contact, "ABC123 make your present heading a radar heading and after the vectors route REFSO, LAM, CPT for the BRS1C."
This has caused several problems with inexperienced crews unfamiliar with this type of clearance- why not just omit the "after the vectors" bit and when we are released from the vectors, just say "route direct LAM, CPT BRS1C etc?" We don't know at what point you are going to release us- it might be somewhere near CPT- we don't know. You will be surprised how many will miss the 'Radar Heading' bit and type in DCT LAM before being challenged by the Almighty!
Oh and I won't even get started on the "When established on the localiser, descend with the glidepath" which for a non-native speaker is like gobbledegook (believe me- I work with them- and they mostly struggle with this phrase). That is why you will often get the "cleared for the approach" reply to that one!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Four rules for VHF VP.
1. Speak slightly more loudly
2. Speak slightly more slowly
3. Speak in a slightly higher pitch if you can
4. If possible, introduce a natural rhythm to your speech.
Anyone knows where that comes from?
And LISTEN OUT, before TX ing
1. Speak slightly more loudly
2. Speak slightly more slowly
3. Speak in a slightly higher pitch if you can
4. If possible, introduce a natural rhythm to your speech.
Anyone knows where that comes from?
And LISTEN OUT, before TX ing
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: ATCO LOWW
Request any direct
For me the most annoying transmissions are along the lines of: "Request any direct!" or "Any shortcut available today?", simply because one gets to hear those so often every day.
It's as if pilots believe ATCOs rejoice in not providing the shortest possible track the circumstances permit.
Also...quite irritating...seriously bad weather (e.g. heavy thunderstorms in the entire TMA, or runways not available due to heavy snowfall), and pilots asking..."Report reason for delay!"
One time one of my co-workers answered "Reason for delay is turtle race on the runway".
I know I know...not very professional, but all of us were struggling with massive traffic loads and dozens of aircraft in the holdings...
It's as if pilots believe ATCOs rejoice in not providing the shortest possible track the circumstances permit.
Also...quite irritating...seriously bad weather (e.g. heavy thunderstorms in the entire TMA, or runways not available due to heavy snowfall), and pilots asking..."Report reason for delay!"
One time one of my co-workers answered "Reason for delay is turtle race on the runway".
I know I know...not very professional, but all of us were struggling with massive traffic loads and dozens of aircraft in the holdings...
