Whatever happened to courtesy in Hong Kong ATC?

[alvega]

It has been quite noticeable for some time now that Hong Kong Air Traffic Controllers are losing their good habits of politeness that for many years told them apart from the rest of the professionals in this area of the world, particularly since some local staff started taking the seat behind the microphone on the other side of the frequency. What happened to the good mornings, good evenings, or even a simple hello or goodbye that we all used to hear every time we tuned into the frequency or were released to the next one? Usually, old habits die hard, but for an old habit to die, first it has to exist. Apparently, for these new controllers, these habits were never learned. It’s a pity, because, for an european who flew in The Old Continent for many years, it was a pleasure to realize that at least in a small area of this “asian air jungle” we could still experience the politeness and civility that was part of the relationship between controllers and pilots. Workload and fatigue are no excuses for that kind of behavior. We pilots are also subject to these pressures and if you listen carefully, 99% of the pilots flying in HK airspace start their call with a greeting and don’t change to the next frequency without a goodbye. Maybe it is time to introduce a class of good manners in the training syllabus for the new controllers.
A simple sign of courtesy can make life so much easier, even or especially under pressure.

[wlatc]

I suspect a number of both pilots and controllers will argue that civility on frequency is of minor importance. They might suggest that competence and brevity are more important, so "get over it".

I agree with you, however. As a 35+ year veteran controller, I never once talked to an airplane. I always spoke with pilots - fellow human beings who always responded in kind to a courteous remark. When we fail to be civil, we are not as good at our jobs as we might be.

[SilentHandover]

Some Hong Kong trainees are being trained at the NATS college in Bournemouth UK, the instructors there discourage the use of pleasantries in transmissions to aircraft. Perhaps they are carrying this on into the real world?

[Track Coastal]

Do you pay tax on every g'day, so-long, ciao, cya, have a nice day, merry christmas etc? I don't think so.

If one is working like a one-legged-ass-kicker people understand, if not you don't lose a birthday for comaraderie and salutations.

I remember in my military days, saying "see ya mate" on reply to a QF 76s "thanks for the help, catcha around" on transfer to the next enroute sector. SATCO standing behind me (sneaky scottish pr!ck*) bellows "where the f*** is that in MATS?" ... (me: quick as flash) "under salutations Sir" (*deathly silence*)... (me)"Speedbird xx descend to Flight Level..." (bugger had skulked off!)

*no offence to my Scottish brethren intended (my wife is Scottish).

[2 sheds]

Silent Handover

You can hardly blame, if that is the right word, NATS CATC for HK controllers being reluctant to use courtesies. Not only would it distract from the task being learned (including correct communications techniques) if courtesies were either encouraged or permitted during training, it would actually be plain daft to wish good-day to the same input staff a dozen times in an exercise!

2 s

[Track Coastal]

Obviously you don't train people to say g'day, but after you're licenced, no one takes a birthday off you for being pleasant whilst providing a professional service.

[Guy D'ageradar]

As most have stated here, most trainee ATCOs are disencouraged, if not outright instructed not to engage in courtesies.

From personal experience, I have usually found that most will happily say hello, goodbye, etc. however, you can most certainly expect those to be dropped as a matter of course as the freq. gets busier. This is one of the few times where courtesy may actually cost something - sometimes, we really do need to save those few seconds .

alvega

Controllers, as do pilots, sometimes have better and/or worse days. I've lost count of the number of times I've offered a direct routeing which saves min 40 - 50 nm, following which, not even a "bye", never mind "thanks"! Most of us do when we can. The rest....... their problem.

Bon Weekend!

[sodukonerd]

Track Coastal

Argghh wee haggis with that crook nose and moustache covered hairlip.

[Yellow Snow]

If you're gonna blame this on CATC instructors, then you'd have to concur that all NATS controllers don't use pleasantries!!

Don't think that's true!

[timelapse]

A little OT but.. there are some Hong Kong guys going through the college at the moment and I found out quite how rigorous their training is.. it's quite insane compared to the UK equivalent although arguably "they way it should be done"

This is the route for area controllers.. (accurate as far as I can remember)

Recruitment, then 2 years as ATSA, then PPL, a 6 month English course, over to Bournemouth for ADI+ADV, APS+procedural, back to HK for 2 years for area instruction, then posted to an area unit for OJT.

If they failed at any point before they went back to HK then they had to pay for all the courses they'd done up until now out of their own pocket(!)

In the opinion of the instructors I asked, they were the most hard working and dedicated trainees they'd ever see and they 'never' failed.

Perhaps we could learn something from their recruitment process..

[SilentHandover]

I never blamed the NATS college instructors, I just offered it as a possible reason, I have just spent 9 months down at the college being told not to say Hello or such unecessarries (looks poorly spelt to me), did I use them on my first transmissions to real pilots, hell of course I did it's good manners to, just wondered if the HK trainees are better at keeping their habits taught at college than me!

[Track Coastal]

Argghh wee haggis with that crook nose and moustache covered hairlip.

They broke the mould after they made him. No one could fly off the handle and reach Mach 1.0+ in 0.1s like him.