Manch pay

[RandD boy]

Forgive me if I'm out of date but whatever happened to the banding pay dispute that was going on at manch? Has it been sorted or been dropped or other? Curious about wether it might have an application for some of us others if it went ok.

[250 kts]

I would suggest the lack of replies indicates my question-what the hell are you on about?????

[9th Dan Vectors]

This is my first post, however as a MACC controller I know the company and the Union have let us down. The extent of which is massively upsetting. Airing our views on this website will get us no further unfortunately, than the attempts to right the many wrongs we are subjected to via the company grievance procedure. What we can do though is look any controller at another unit in NATS or Europe in the eye and know we match up. I am not second rate and neither are any of my colleagues. We should not be thought of as such by our fellow sector controllers in the UK. Company culture dictates we should be regarded as second class. Why?

[Loxley]

I think any ounce of sympathy that people had for the MACC guys and gals over the move to Scotland evaporated when MACC started banging on about banding. MACC seem to think that they were the only unit who didn't get what they wanted or felt they deserved when banding came in. Guess what...............you weren't! Plenty of units felt they weren't having their hard work aptly recognised by the company as a result of banding. Why do MACC think they're so special?

[anotherthing]

9th Dan Vectors

Company culture dictates we should be regarded as second class

What do you mean by this? is it because of Banding you feel this way, or because of the move to Prestwick?

[Stupendous Man]

Would you care to explain why being at Prestwick makes you second class?

[flyingwithstyle1]

banding is certainly causing a problem at my band 2 unit up north. Several ATCOs are looking for better paid jobs outside NATS. If there is any attempt to alter pension terms and conditions then that will certainly make it easier to leave. I am watching what happens with the BAA pension issue with interest.

[ImnotanERIC]

wouldn't worry about it, when nats sells of nsl because it doesnt make any money you will be working outside of nats.

Result eh?

[Geffen]

Devils advocate time

If nsl sold all their loss making airports it would be in the money! maybe even stay in nats!

[Ceannairceach]

Loxley - I don't think anyone at MACC begrudges any other unit their right to equal pay with their colleagues. Indeed, we were against the banding structure as a whole at Manch, not just for ourselves.

So we don't think we're special. Far from it. We think we're equal with our colleagues across the company - and demand to be paid equally - as should anyone who is a victim of this unjust and divisive system.

[RandD boy]

original question

ok but back to my original question; is it all finished with or resolved one way or another? Also, what's the way it's being done (if it still is)? Is it a union complaint or a complaint to management or what? i'd seen rumours it was a legal case of some sort but if so, how? is manch saying the banding system is illegal? i know some decisions have been a bit unpopular but surely NATs managers arent daft enough to put something into place and carry it on if it's illegal. last one-was anyone put under any pressure to stop complaining about it or leaned on to give it up or were they all left to get on with it?

[250 kts]

I would have thought that a "banding pay dispute" may just involve every union member having some idea what is going on.

The banding and associated pay rises were voted in by a massive majority. We are now about to be paid the last part of the 3 year deal. I would suggest that any "dispute" will be attempt to be addressed in the pay negotiations for 2009 onwards. Assuming there is any cash available to give us a pay rise at all!

RanD-I see you work at LACC-why don't you pick up a phone to MACC and ask one of them what is going on??

[ImnotanERIC]

I tried that once, was told very quickly that they were far too busy to answer the phone if it was not an operational call. what with their increased traffic levels and all.

[Homo Simpson]

Fact is the massive majority that voted in the pay deal, which had the banding at its heart were mmm let me see ah thats right the very people that were going to benefit from it the most. You have the numbers.
The reasons given for bringing it in and i am comparing here at Manchester with Band 5 units only, are just bollocks. We can easily question and show that every justification for the banding is wrong.
That is why the equal pay claims are landing on managements desk every week.
We are meant to be working together to assist each other not having a great big bloody wedge shoved between us which unless you are dumb is all about saving money!
If other units want to fight banding then do it, dont have a pop at Manchester because we are taking them on. For too long we sat about and moaned and bitched and took what was thrown at us. Well we have had enough and thats why there has been a far more determined mood to fight back.

[250 kts]

Homo,

I accept all of your arguments. But who do you want parity with exactly? TC, AC, Farnborough? Or should we all be paid exactly the same-in which case I guess we can say good bye to airport contracts,especially the one at Manchester which I understand is making a sizeable loss already.

Remember your reps voted very strongly in not going into units when it comes to pay and unfortunately this is what we are left with.

[Squawk 7700]

In answer to your question 250kts. I personally want parity with those that work within the same company and hold the same license i.e an ACS rating. As we are all aware we are a mobile grade, therefore we cannot choose where we are posted, therefore it follows that we should all be paid the same. I believe you cannot penalise someone ( in pay terms) who performs exactly the same function as anyone else in the company with an ACS rating because they were posted somewhere beyond their control.

[Hootin an a roarin]

I am a mobile grade and have an APS and ADC rating. By that logic can I please be paid the same as Manc tower?
Alternatively for parity I provide a tower and approach function, which is more than the controllers at LHR do, so should I not be paid more?

What a c**p argument.

If you mean that you are moving the same traffic in similar circumstances then I agree you should be paid more. But just because you could be posted anywhere doesn't mean we should all be on a par with everyone else. I think most people by that argument would want/get a pay rise.

[250 kts]

7700-so a London City tower controller gets the same as a Heathrow God??

And what about those in the company who hold all of the ratings-TWR/APC + Area?
I accept the ratings may not all be current but those staff are arguably of greater use to the company in terms of potential flexibility than those without.
And how do you get round the issue of different pay on the same unit?

I take it from your post that you didn't want to go to Manchester in the 1st place and have been trying for years to get out?

[Ppdude]

Atco 2 should get same money as atco 2. Simple

Same job, same contract, same responsibilty, same hours.

[throw a dyce]

Does the Manchester Airport contract make any money? If it doesn't then you could say that Band 2 units that are in profit,are subsidising Atco's who earn £17K more.
Ppdude.What about Atco 3s.